Reply With QuoteCool - any additional friction on the movement, or does it stay within spec for time keeping, being an analogue watch?
Having seen this thread a while ago:
http://www.christopherwardforum.com/...pic.php?t=4960
And having received some helpful instructions from Jeremy.
I decided to oil fill a watch for myself... so today I successfully liquid filled my Omega SMP Quartz. I'll get some decent pics at the weekend, but here it is:
(It looks much better in the flesh, but I need to dig out my DSLR).
I will also be doing a Promaster Citizen quartz... and may even attempt a solar one, to see how that fares :-)
Thoughts? Comments? Abuse?
Cool - any additional friction on the movement, or does it stay within spec for time keeping, being an analogue watch?
It's just a matter of time...
I think I would like to see some more pictures....but I must say I admire your cojones for doing this to your watch!
Any idea what this does to the depth rating?
That's a brave move on an expensive watch. Think I would have opted for proof of concept of a beater first. Good luck though !!
No idea whatsoever - literally just done it about an hour ago. So far so good, but I will monitor and let you know.Originally Posted by Omegamanic
I will take some more shots of this and the Citizen as soon as I can. Cojones is about right, slightly nerve-wracking, but what's the worst that can happen? I drain the watch and replace the hands and dial?
In terms of depth rating, I would imagine it is limited to the quartz components now... but in all honesty, 300M is deeper than I was ever going to go anyway. It does make the HE redundant though, but again.... not something I ever used.
I just did it for the visual effect.
That was the idea with the Citizen... but I got impatient :-)
Extreme. I'm in admiration
The cost of the watch was not the biggest thing anyway as it was a cheap, slightly battered SMP I got from SC a while ago. Flourinert FC-770 is expensive stuff. I have ordered 5KG of it, and it was £500! Then the cost of the vacuum pump and degas chamber on top. I know 5KG may seem like a lot, but bear in mind you need to submerge the watch and all the bits AND have enough room to put it all back together under the fluid.
I also bought enough to be future proof for battery changes :-)
It was interesting - worth every penny IMO. If these work OK for the next little while, I will do the same for my black bond quartz SMP too.
Balls of steel... glad the experiment worked.
Im another one who'd love to know what effect that's had on the depth rating.
Curious - how do you reassemble it submerged? Doesn't the oil prevent the caseback screwing down fully? The CW thread doesn't seem to address this either. And I assume your pro-master is not a front-loader?
I would love to see the face of the Omega techie if that ever lands on his desk for a service ;)
Fair play though, I would have tried it out on something a lot cheaper than the SMP first.
I wonder... the HEV valve - will it maintain its seal against the flouro liquid? I cant think of any reason why not, but then I don't know much about the construction of them.
Intersting!
Think I'd have tried it on a cheapy first though!
How have you dealt with the thermal expansion of the liquid?
I am actually wondering if the HEV will serve in that capacity... am looking at drawings of them now ;)
The HEV on the SMP is manual - just a crown on a threaded tube.
Last edited by Chris W; 24th February 2014 at 14:51. Reason: carp spelling...
Oh... that explains the thread;
I thought it was a Pressure Relief Valve as I am used to... looks like the the Rolex ones are.
Impressive! If anyone fancies trying their hand at this sort of thing inexpensively, and I don't, there's a thread out there on filling a Casio FW91 with olive oil; no vacuum pump necessary.
just found it, here:
http://www.thewatchsite.com/34-watch...io-f-91-a.html
I too will be interested to see how this pans out. Also, it's good to see a genuinely interesting thread about watches for a change!
I don't imagine the extra drag will affect the timing of a quartz movement, but you never know. I'll need to read through that ChrWard thread now to see if it affected the timing of a mechanical. I'd be worried about lubrication.
Good effort.
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
What a fantastic project, I am so jealous of your cahhoonas, watch WISness in the extreme. Well done and me thinks this project will be taking off for you ;)
Cheers
Simon
Ralph Waldo Emerson: We ask for long life, but 'tis deep life, or noble moments that signify. Let the measure of time be spiritual, not mechanical.
I wonder if that was written by a certain member of this forum? I'm tempted to give this a go on a cheap Casio, but I wouldn't use olive oil due to its tendency to coagulate at low (but not very low) temperatures. I'm not sure which oil(s) would be better, but don't imagine it would take more than a few hour's research to find out.
Hi
Fantastic effort....if perhaps a little bonkers with the choice of the guinea pig !
Now where is that MegaQuartz....?
Best - Neil
Last edited by flame; 24th February 2014 at 15:18.
Silicone oil? Some are specifically formulated to be non-conductive, but I don't know what the costs would be...
I don't think you can liquid fill a mechanical movement - too much drag on the rotor & other stuff.
All I can say is wow.....Going to look if I can find a cheap quartz to do it myself hahaha...Really cool..
WOW, great project, but I have to ask why???
Liquid filled watches are typically assoicated with super deep diving. So is this something you intend to use it for?.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Very interesting, how did you deal with allowing for thermal expansion of the Flourinert? the guy on the ChrWard forum doesn't go into any detail...
You need a compressible, elastic thing - a small, rubber air-filled ball would do, though you can O-Rings with a tyre inner-tube like profile that would serve.
Toward the end of the thread he talked about placing a section of closed cell foam within the case to allow for the expansion.
It also significantly affects how it looks because oil has a very different refractive index than air. You can see the effect to some extent in the picture at the top of the thread. It gives the whole face a sort of flat look, like it's projected onto the glass.
Very impressed you did that yourself. It looks like the dial is more readable from an angle now?
Blimey!
"I looked with pity not untinged with scorn upon these trivial-minded passers-by"
Wow, you got big stones, man!
Well done
An expensive(ish) watch,but a quartz replacement isn't a huge cost.
If the movement became u/s the rest won't have suffered any damage.
I think he'd have known all this ;).
Interesting! But personally I wouldn't try that, especially on this superb, expensive watch, as I don't know how this affects the watch. Please keeps us posted on how it goes after a while.
Apart from being super cool, is there any real advantage from this? Apologies for asking, I have seen liquid filled watches, don't know if they require specific specs for that.
Wow, I really like that! I'm very impressed.
I dive with a Sinn UX and for me it's nothing to do with the potential massive depth rating. Simply, you can see the time from any angle underwater. With an air filled watch, you need to looking at it pretty much square on to avoid refraction turning the glass into a mirror (cue Ralphy's lovely photos earlier today).
I seem to be able to turn my wrist, so can see my watch very clearly, oil filling not needed!!!, however interesting project.
Mike
Nice to see someone else having a go at this, the Omega looks great. I did the same with a few watches about 3 years ago now, and I still have two of the watches, still filled, and they have run (almost) faultlessly.
My first experiment was on this Zodiac, which worked out quite well.
Once I'd proved that it worked, I then filled this Seiko Tuna.
In in the interests of experimentation I 'punished' the case a bit with temperature extremes to see what would happen. Here's the result of a night in the freezer, the bubble shows how much the liquid has contracted.
And here it is at 60 degrees C...
The crystal gasket failed at 62 degrees, but I'd say that's enough, I suspect the movement wouldn't be too happy at that temp anyway. Also, the amount of liquid inside is much more without the movement so the pressure would be more.
The Zodiac I use as a bit of desk ornament these days, but I've been wearing the Tuna regularly since I filled it. What I've found is that with the constant heating and cooling on and off the wrist, the caseback tends to loosen over time, and so needs tightening back up every 3 months or so. I also find that when it's been worn in the summer and gets particularly warm or I wear the watch in the shower, if you unscrew the crown, it shoots out to the time setting position immediately. Other than that, it's been fine with no issues to the timekeeping.
I've changed the battery in both watches in that time, they lasted about 2 years. I suspect that is shorter than they would have lasted without the liquid as the movement has to deal with the extra friction of driving the hands through the liquid, but 2 years is still pretty good.
The ideal scenario would be to fill a solar powered watch, and I tried it with this Citizen Orca.
The end result was great, especially with the high domed crystal, but I found that the movement was only just strong enough to drive the hands through the fluid. It did work but it looked laboured, so after a few weeks I drained it again. I didn't much care for the style of the watch anyway - I can't help thinking of a clown every time I see one - but it worked, and charged just like a normal eco-drive.
A note to the OP, if you do drain your watch, you shouldn't need to replace the dial and hands as the liquid should just evaporate off, leaving no detectable residue. As you've probably discovered, the evaporation rate of the liquid is fierce, so ensure that your container is well sealed as at £100/kg, you'd be pretty chiffed if your 5kg disappeared over night.
I know some people question the point of filling watches. Theoretically, it increases the depth rating massively; as you can't compress a liquid, the only crushable component inside would be the air in the quartz crystal tube and you'd have to be pretty deep to do that. Another benefit, is that you'll never get any moisture inside.
At the end of the day, there is no real practical purpose, it just looks cool. In fact, when I drained the fluid out of my Tuna to change the battery, it just look odd, and I couldn't wait to get it refilled.
Edit: To answer the question above about expansion, I too tried the closed cell foam and also a single bubble from some bubble wrap - the bubble eventually popped leaving me with an air bubble. The closed cell foam did work, but didn't seem to compress that much and the stem still shot out of the tuna when hot. I worked out that the liquid would expand 12%, so you'd need quite a lot of foam to compensate for that.
I've got other ideas for handling the expansion to try, but I don't have enough time to mess about with these things these days. Consequently, when I replaced the battery in the Seiko last year, I just opted to leave a small air bubble in the watch - it won't please the purists, but it seems to have stopped the caseback from unscrewing, and people that have seen it are pretty fascinated that I have a watch with a bubble in it.
Rich.
Last edited by Richie_101; 24th February 2014 at 21:03.
I am extremely impressed. I am now thinking of which quartz watch I can buy yo do this to!
More photos please!
If there are any saturation divers on the forum, I'd be happy to loan my "200M" Citizen, which is now done. Ofcourse, I would recommend taking another timing means :-)
To answer both your questions, Jeremy on the CW forum has or is in the process of patenting his mechanism for dealing with this. I signed an NDA so that he would share his secret with me. Needless to say, he has a fairy neat solution.
QUOTE=Cirrus;3051589]I would love to see the face of the Omega techie if that ever lands on his desk for a service ;)
Fair play though, I would have tried it out on something a lot cheaper than the SMP first.
I wonder... the HEV valve - will it maintain its seal against the flouro liquid? I cant think of any reason why not, but then I don't know much about the construction of them.[/QUOTE]
That would be funny, just opening it and liquid pouring out. So far the normal crown and HEV seem to be holding up well. I put the watch in the fridge for 20mins then sat it in the sun with the crowns open... no signs of leakage.
So far, it's to the second of how I set my watches... (http://www.timeanddate.com/worldcloc...een.html?n=136) - but even it does have a slight affect, it will likely still be more accurate than most mechanical watches.
Thank-you :-)
And now a couple more phone pics.... slightly better, but still not great
Eyeing up my watch case. Who's heading for the oily treatment.
Just because it looks cool - I'd be happy to lend one to a saturation diver for testing if you know any?
- - - Updated - - -
Good luck
It is indeed - just taken a couple more pics to show that a little better.
Not sure if it would work in sat?, gas will permeate the case during saturation, but it might get a bit messy coming out the HEV?!!!!!
Nice to see someone else having a go at this, the Omega looks great. I did the same with a few watches about 3 years ago now, and I still have two of the watches, still filled, and they have run (almost) faultlessly.
My first experiment was on this Zodiac, which worked out quite well.
Once I'd proved that it worked, I then filled this Seiko Tuna.
In in the interests of experimentation I 'punished' the case a bit with temperature extremes to see what would happen. Here's the result of a night in the freezer, the bubble shows how much the liquid has contracted.
And here it is at 60 degrees C...
The crystal gasket failed at 62 degrees, but I'd say that's enough, I suspect the movement wouldn't be too happy at that temp anyway. Also, the amount of liquid inside is much more without the movement so the pressure would be more.
The Zodiac I use as a bit of desk ornament these days, but I've been wearing the Tuna regularly since I filled it. What I've found is that with the constant heating and cooling on and off the wrist, the caseback tends to loosen over time, and so needs tightening back up every 3 months or so. I also find that when it's been worn in the summer and gets particularly warm or I wear the watch in the shower, if you unscrew the crown, it shoots out to the time setting position immediately. Other than that, it's been fine with no issues to the timekeeping.
I've changed the battery in both watches in that time, they lasted about 2 years. I suspect that is shorter than they would have lasted without the liquid as the movement has to deal with the extra friction of driving the hands through the liquid, but 2 years is still pretty good.
The ideal scenario would be to fill a solar powered watch, and I tried it with this Citizen Orca.
The end result was great, especially with the high domed crystal, but I found that the movement was only just strong enough to drive the hands through the fluid. It did work but it looked laboured, so after a few weeks I drained it again. I didn't much care for the style of the watch anyway - I can't help thinking of a clown every time I see one - but it worked, and charged just like a normal eco-drive.
A note to the OP, if you do drain your watch, you shouldn't need to replace the dial and hands as the liquid should just evaporate off, leaving no detectable residue. As you've probably discovered, the evaporation rate of the liquid is fierce, so ensure that your container is well sealed as at £100/kg, you'd be pretty chiffed if your 5kg disappeared over night.
I know some people question the point of filling watches. Theoretically, it increases the depth rating massively; as you can't compress a liquid, the only crushable component inside would be the air in the quartz crystal tube and you'd have to be pretty deep to do that. Another benefit, is that you'll never get any moisture inside.
At the end of the day, there is no real practical purpose, it just looks cool. In fact, when I drained the fluid out of my Tuna to change the battery, it just look odd, and I couldn't wait to get it refilled.
Edit: To answer the question above about expansion, I too tried the closed cell foam and also a single bubble from some bubble wrap - the bubble eventually popped leaving me with an air bubble. The closed cell foam did work, but didn't seem to compress that much and the stem still shot out of the tuna when hot. I worked out that the liquid would expand 12%, so you'd need quite a lot of foam to compensate for that.
I've got other ideas for handling the expansion to try, but I don't have enough time to mess about with these things these days. Consequently, when I replaced the battery in the Seiko last year, I just opted to leave a small air bubble in the watch - it won't please the purists, but it seems to have stopped the caseback from unscrewing, and people that have seen it are pretty fascinated that I have a watch with a bubble in it.
Rich.
That's great, thanks Rich - I love the oil filled Tuna - was thinking of doing one of those at some point :-)
So you didn't need to add anything to compensate for thermal expansion?
Can't commercially available liquid filled watches be used with Sat diving, then? TBH, I am pretty ignorant of such things - a limited amount of Scuba diving is my limit... but if anyone would like to take one on a deep dive beyond it's advertised limits, I am happy to loan a guinea pig.
I am back to work in April so will take one in with me if you want?!!
You have a PM. But yes, I'd be really curious to see how it gets on.
Yes, I've got closed cell foam in both watches. I don't wear the Zodiac so that is unaffected by temp changes anyway, but there isn't much room left in a Tuna case for foam and it couldn't handle the expansion the first time around, so I left a small bubble in it as well this time. I'm not worried at all about the bubble and if it stops the caseback from unscrewing then I'll be happy.
Just a word of warning to anyone fancying a go at this; it's not a cheap caper. As Dan said the fluid is £100/kg and you'll need at least a couple of kilos to get started, most of which will evaporate off, plus you'll need a vacuum chamber to pull all the air out of the case before sealing it. Without the chamber I'd say it's impossible to make to bubble free, and if you were hoping to just pour some liquid in and close the case, 30% of it would have evaporated off before you got it screwed down.
You might have more luck with the olive/gear oil as that doesn't evaporate, but I don't know if a regular quartz would have the power to drive the hands so you'd be limited to LCD's.
Fun and games eh!
Rich.
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