Reply With QuoteIf England votes to take the UK out of the EU I will be leaving tomorrow. I don't want to be part of a paranoid, racist, right wing little island.
Or are we heading towards the divorce courts?
When you consider all factors relating to our relationship with Europe, is our marriage strong? Are the scales in our favour or is divorce looming?
Like any relationship, you need to get back as much as you put in. Is this the case with the UK & Europe? Or have the scaled started to tip against us?
Do we need Europe as much as Europe needs us?
If this was a marriage I personally feel our relationship with Europe is less than harmonious, and the government knows if we had a referendum, this island nation would more than likely vote for independence. Something they would rather not face I'm sure.
Would be interested to know what the general consensus is regarding this issue.
Last edited by Chinnock; 12th January 2014 at 23:52.
“Don’t look back, you’re not heading that way.”
If England votes to take the UK out of the EU I will be leaving tomorrow. I don't want to be part of a paranoid, racist, right wing little island.
Why have I been prevented from earning a living? I despise the 48 hour working time directive!
I'm a big supporter of Europe as a concept. But as it is it's a mess, a total mess. The irony is that it needs more power to bring people into line but no-one trusts them with it, it's all too parochial, political and petty or worse, overlordish.
It's turning into the Federal States of Europe and not a Confederacy - at the minute it's somewhere between them.
Who will stand up to the US or China in the future, not Britain, but Europe might?
You should have to pass an exam on Europe before being able to vote in the referendum.
Don't let the door, etc.Originally Posted by andrew91
Best in the 'Pit, this one.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Me to with regards the 48 hour working time directive . Our company and the unions opted the entire work force in to the
48 hour working time directive .Management were exempt for bussiness needs, the union agreed because they thought it would
create new job .They didn't really give a shit about us wonting to earn as much as we could because thats being greedy and
there against that. Sooner we leave the better i say.
Sooner we are out the better. People need to realise what the EU really is as it's not what you think.
Wanting out has naff all to do with racism or being a little Englander. When you discover what the EU is really about you will understand that
We'd need to decide if we should speak German or English (better for dealing with the rest of the world) but I'm all in favour of a United States of Europe.
I would vote to leave.
First thing I signed when I started working was the opt out :(
+1.
Can't wait to get out
I can't see what we get out of it
When as a young man I decided to vote for "A Common Market" I did not envisage the mess that is the EU.
I did not vote for the mess that is Brussels, the freeloaders, the corrupt etc etc I voted for a trade group that would help us trade between ourselves and challenge the US and now China.
Would I at this time if given the option ( which I doubt) vote to leave ? YES.
I FEEL LIKE I'M DIAGONALLY PARKED IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE
Explain your reasoning please?
I FEEL LIKE I'M DIAGONALLY PARKED IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE
When those in favour of the single market need to open with the need to stay in by using scare tactics ,fear or imaginary benefits they
know the game is up. Truth be told leaving would still affect us massively but less then staying would ,but as time goes by
the benefits look less impressive and the corrosive impact of the EU is much worse then we ever thought possible.
Just look at the shit we have to take every time the UK is taken to the European Courts of Justice ,we normally lose .
And how often would this have been avoided if a little common sense had been used?
"Give prisoners the vote" said the EU court after the Government have ignored their own legal advisors, because:
" I can't" says dainty Dave "cos it make's me feel 'ick to do it"
Seriously, we don't give prisoners the vote because of that ???
Strange comment, you think it's fascist to no let a centralised european government run our affairs. The UK needs to be run by the UK, what have we gained from the EU so far? RUle and Regs that we are the only country that seems to bother following (generalisation but that is how it felt when I lived in france) I see the French doing so well in their socialist state?
one of you is mixing something up
European Court of Justice is not the European court of human rights (where prisoners' voting dispute ended up) which is unrelated to the EU anyway.
You give prisoners a national vote in a sovereign democratic country after a national debate, and a reassessment of prisoners' yooman rights, not because a European foreigner tells you to. Unless you've got a thing for being pushed around of course.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Sounds like we need their over-sight to me.
If we judgements went 50:50 or greater in our favour, you could argue we don't need them. But if we "normally lose" it sounds like we need them to look after us.
There are, of course, aspects of EU politics that are bad. On the whole I am against an elected parliament as it just tries to justify itself with making silly laws etc. However there are aspects of the EU that are fantastic: Schengen, freedom of workers, freedom of goods, general development funds, erasmus, european health card, rural development within the leader project, cross border development and general closer European integration is a general good thing. There is so much to lose and not a huge amount to gain from leaving the EU. The EU have some fantastic projects and general principals but all you hear in the news is "how straight bananas should be" etc etc. which are just made up anyway. Maybe the EU costs the UK and other western nations money but if it helps our eastern European neighbours to further develop and a general integration between all countries then I think its money well spent. Immigration from the freedom of workers also helps the UK as immigrants cost the UK little(they are young so don't need pensions, spend little time in the NHS etc.) and contribute to the UK by working so are net contributors.
If we leave the EU what will happen? Clearly this is impossible to say but I think it's likely that the UK will become more isolated, we will lose our right to work anywhere in Europe, immigration will be cut dramatically to appease the masses, we will probably come further away from Europe and closer to the USA and, in general, become a less tolerant and fair society. This is just my opinion but I will not hesitate to move if Scotland votes no and England votes yes.
Last edited by andrew91; 14th January 2014 at 00:45.
Not a problem! I work about 10 hours a week on average.
Each week I also spend
7 hours travelling to and from meetings with people who work in malodorous offices
5 hours drinking coffee. Some of it is ok.
2 hours staring out the window. Ooh look, a squirrel.
12 hours answering fatuous emails.
1 hour minimum composing my own fatuous emails.
5 hours on the phone pretending to agree with people who actually annoy me.
6 hours sitting in meetings feeling my energy sapping as I doodle on corporate notepads.
Never even get close to the limit.
Yes we also have adopted the saying 'give them exactly what they give us, absolutely FA' heal dragging, go slow is the order of the day! Sick, pig sick of being told of how to live my life.
I don't know the stats about the ECJ but I do the ECHR, leave aside the rabid right-wing press, the stats seems don't bear out that we 'normally lose' (you can download the ECHR reports from their website with the stats) bor the idea that the ECHR is constantly fighting with the UK, 97% of cases are struck out at the first stage, and the average numbers of cases involving the ECHR and the UK has averaged about 6 per year since it was created...
Since the UK was one of the driving force behind the ECHR and our people wrote most of it, if you don't like the ECHR,well that's our own fault.
Sounds like you need a change of direction.
Don't you go bringing facts and rational argument to this.
It's generally a waste of time, I just find it weird how many people who are obsessed with the EU don't seem to understand the basic political and legal structures of Europe - hence the common misunderstanding that the ECHR is an EU court.
If people don't want to be in the EU, fair enough but at least start from a position of knowledge.
Well, that might be the case if you're a bit self-loathing, if you think "our silly little institutions aren't worth a whit, we must turn to a superior and civilising European to poke us in the chest and tell us what to do".
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Some also say that the conditions under which the ECHR was created no longer apply, since it was designed to stop Germans and Russians from shooting thousands of combatants and non-combantants and burying them in shallow pits all the time. Anyway, it's slightly separate to the corrupt and worthless cabal that is the EU...
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
All of these things are either not applicable to the UK (Schengen), heavily debatable (freedom of goods, are you saying that there is no freedom of goods outside of Europe?), a expensive folly (Erasmus), of marginal benefit given the cost (the rather parochial health card, which is useful if you never travel outside of the European states, and is about as momentous an achievement as an all-states US health card would appear to a European), nebulous and undefined in terms of benefit (cross border development), and unintelligible (I'd love to know what "rural development within the leader project" is!). Also all of these things happen elsewhere in the world on a bilateral basis. So if you're saying that Old Europe needs this sort of massive, creaking, corrupt and hugely expensive structure in order (in the time since you declared your intolerance to this thread, the UK has paid the EU over £100 million) to achieve the things that the far more dynamic rest of the world manages without, then it's a damning indictment of the European condition.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24773179
Whats good for business is good for the people. Anyway my knowledge of these things is not good enough to have a proper debate about it but I just think further intergeneration with Europe can only be a good thing. I don't want the UK to become isolated, protectionist, anti business, anti immigration country.
You seem to think that that is the only option to a fully federal Europe in which the UK is meekly subservient. Presumably you disdain all other countries around the world that have not joined the EU. What about Australia? Or Norway? Or Switzerland? New Zealand? Canada? Iceland? Why should mere geographical distance restrict what the EU can and cannot encompass?
The EU restricts UK business by (for example) disallowing free-trade agreements between member states that suit their individual economies. It restricts UK business through tedious rules and regulations; the EU's red tape burden has been documented to distraction. The EU has given rise to the single currency which marginally benefits UK exporters in terms of simplicity (as if today's modern IT systems could not cope with multiple currencies) but the single interest rate across the eurozone has played a major part in ruining those economies. A multi-lateral trade agreement between the UK and a smaller, tighter Europe would give both sides almost all of the benefit and much less of the headache and expense. However, it's interesting that the pro-EU camp can only come up with one alternative to not being in the EU - images of a shuttered island suddenly unable to trade in the way the rest of the planet manages to trade. This position is taken up either because they have vested interests in remaining within the EU (kickbacks?), or because they're unintelligent.
£200 million paid since the thread started, by the way. Anyway, roll on 2017 - if I'm back by then.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
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