Formula 1 2014

[KAS118]

Interesting that Audi are coming to F1 http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/audi/89...rce=newsletter

I wonder if BMW a will feel the need to return - and with Honda being there will Toyota feel they'll need to have a presence?

[Backward point]

Interesting that Audi are coming to F1 http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/audi/89...rce=newsletter

I wonder if BMW a will feel the need to return - and with Honda being there will Toyota feel they'll need to have a presence?

That article is either lazy journalism (making up a story which ties a few threads together) or a potential bombshell.

Red Bull's frustration with Renault came to a head mid-season, there's a strong link between Audi and Red Bull, Audi have nothing left to prove in endurance racing, and are on the back foot this season anyway, and Red Bull (the drinks company) have probably taken as much out of F1 as they can, having been handed their backsides this season by Mercedes after four years of domination.

I think that it will be a cold day in hell before Toyota come back into F1, though. There are still too many bitter memories from their previous foray.

[oldandgrumpy]

Audi to F1 makes a lot of sense - for more than a few years there has been nothing left to prove in endurance racing.

Which team gets the rights to call themselves the 'silver arrows' ?

(If only the regulations allowed for a concept as diverse as the AutoUnion)

[Mr Pointy]

Marussia to miss the US race as well as Caterham:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/29770496

So only 18 cars on the grid.

[Foxy100]

That article is either lazy journalism (making up a story which ties a few threads together) or a potential bombshell.

Red Bull's frustration with Renault came to a head mid-season, there's a strong link between Audi and Red Bull, Audi have nothing left to prove in endurance racing, and are on the back foot this season anyway, and Red Bull (the drinks company) have probably taken as much out of F1 as they can, having been handed their backsides this season by Mercedes after four years of domination.

I think that it will be a cold day in hell before Toyota come back into F1, though. There are still too many bitter memories from their previous foray.

Taylor is an Australian based in Italy, I wonder if this is coming out of Ferrari?

[PJ S]

I suspect Toyota will monitor Honda's return to the sport, as an engine supplier only.
Toyota would likely do the same if they were to also return, rather than be a full works team again.

[petethegeek]

Given the seemingly increasing possibility of it happening, can anyone provide pointers to any articles - or analysis/discussion - on the incremental financial cost of running a third car?

PS Failing actual links, wild personal speculation will be acceptable in lieu.

[Tuna1138]

Given the seemingly increasing possibility of it happening, can anyone provide pointers to any articles - or analysis/discussion - on the incremental financial cost of running a third car?

PS Failing actual links, wild personal speculation will be acceptable in lieu.

plenty of links around for 3 car teams, below Bernie in Singapore confirming the teams are contractually obliged to supply a 3rd car if 3 teams drop out


http://www1.skysports.com/f1/report/...-teams-in-2015

BBC coverage of the the Sochi GP had an interview with Claire Williams, she was asked about the costs regarding running a 3rd car and she mentioned the figure of an additional 20-30 Million £'s to run one

[Matt.D]

Best info, as usual, comes from Joe Saward.

Basically no one has a clue how it will work and if it's to go ahead I predict it will be under a hastily put together package of rules over winter.

[TikTokTrev]

...and now Marussia are also in administration.
Doesn't bode well for the future of the sport.

[JasonM]

...and now Marussia are also in administration.
Doesn't bode well for the future of the sport.

Marussia have a few buyers lined up at least....

[Backward point]

After a 3-week break, many column yards have been filled with the news that Caterham and subsequently Marussia will not be making the journey to Austin for this weekend's race or the subsequent Brazilian Grand Prix as the season reaches its climax. There must be a question over their participation in the much discussed (and derided in equal measure) double-pointer at Abu Dhabi.

To be honest, things look a bit bleak for Caterham, and the future doesn't look too rosy for Marussia either. The most valuable asset that either team owns would appear to be their entry in F1. Gene Haas might be able to make a useful saving.

The Circuit of the Americas proves the law of averages, being a Hermann Tilke design that isn't completely bland and soul-less. The circuit is defined by the gradient change up to Turn 1, and the Esses which follow. A couple of overtaking opportunities mean that the racing has been entertaining in the previous two races, and there's the prospect of more this time around.

Behind the Mercedes duo, that is. Motor Sport, in conjunction with Giorgio Piola, have an insight into the three innovations on this year's Mercedes which have provided the edge which Messrs Hamilton and Rosberg have enjoyed all season - the splitting of the turbocharger which gives the packaging advantage which in turn gives an aerodynamic benefit, the use of contra-rotating vortices from the front wing enhanced by an innovative lower front wishbone, which drag more air over and under the front wing and in turn energises the rear diffuser and a double-skinned gearbox casing which enables the optimisation of the rear suspension geometry. It's a brilliantly resolved design, and the power advantage of the Mercedes engine hasn't hampered their cause.

Returning to the subject of "things that won't be around next season", here's Sniff Petrol's take on Sam Michael's departure from McLaren:

http://sniffpetrol.com/2014/10/23/sa.../#.VFEf-r4Rlis

I haven't checked the timings of the tv coverage, but it should be at a civilised hour.

More later.

[Backward point]

F1 geeks, prepare to lose a few hours of your lives:

http://charts.animateddata.co.uk/f1/

In other news, an update from the family of Jules Bianchi confirms that his condition remains "critical but stable".

And a Romanian team called "Forza Rossa" has apparently received the green light to enter Formula 1 at some point in the next two years. Which means that, with the entry of Haas in 2016, the spectre of three-car teams appears to be diminishing. For now.

[Jeremy67]

I haven't checked the timings of the tv coverage, but it should be at a civilised hour.

Not if you watch on the BBC, it's one of the non-live races and highlights are at 10:30.

[Huertecilla]

and just as interesting are the Austin F1 hours on tv.

Watching the P2 now and I am only watching the Q3 tomorrow if I am home and have finished the book I am reading.

By Tutatis, how demotivating the technical goof ups must be for Vettel.


As to Caterham and Marussia, without them, with additional third cars from the big guys there will be THREE Mercs on the podium...

[Huertecilla]

translates into euthanasia for racing.
Just when you think things cannot get worse than three Mercs scoring double points in Dubai they press the VSC button...

The bump cars at the fair are more exiting to watch than this slow motion procession on a wiiiiiiiiiiiiide oooopennnnnnn booooooring track.

Can someone please shoot this ailing season and end its suffering?!

[~dadam02~]

I mean this with the utmost respect, but can you please stop posting in this thread. It really is getting tiresome now.

[Huertecilla]

I mean this with the utmost respect, but can you please stop posting in this thread. It really is getting tiresome now.

Where were you during the months long moaning epoque about the reduction of the noise level?

[Dave+63]

We know that you find it boring but do you need to tell us at EVERY opportunity?

[oldandgrumpy]

I agree. We know you don't like the present status quo (and that's your prerogative) However, If you've got nothing new to say, please respect those who are enjoying the season.

[~dadam02~]

Where were you during the months long moaning epoque about the reduction of the noise level?

Unfortunately I've been here throughout to read your drivel, enough is enough...quite frankly no one cares anymore so please do us all a favour and give this thread a wide berth.

[jaytip]

I have to agree with the comments above. It's becoming really tiresome now (cillas comments, not F1)

[Backward point]

Leaving our Spanish bore aside, yesterday's free practice sessions were punctuated by the Mercedes being a second clear of everybody else interspersed with both Lotus drivers failing to proceed in a forward direction, with both Maldonado and Grosjean no doubt thankful for the wide open prairies surrounding the circuit.

Qualifying changes this weekend, due to the depleted field. The slowest four cars will be eliminated from each session - for Q1 this will be the slowest three plus the former World Champion, who will start the race from the pit lane with a shiny new engine, turbo, ERS, control electronics and battery. And gearbox.

At the end of yesterday's sessions there was a trial of the proposed "virtual safety car", where the drivers have to continuously drive to a "delta" designed to slow all of the cars while maintaining position and the gaps between them. Much more sensible and fair than a safety car.

After FP2 we had the Team Principals' press conference. This happens at every Grand Prix weekend, as does the drivers' conference. Six victims are pre-selected by the FIA to answer questions put to them by accredited press representatives. Usually, this means that the drivers and TP's will field the questions in the most uninformative and noncommittal way possible, thereby failing to increase the breadth of human understanding and wasting an hour of everybody's time.

Yesterday, we had five Team Principals, as Claire Williams was unwell. On the front row were Toto Wolff and Eric Boullier, representing the "haves". The "have nots" were represented by Gerard Lopez of Lotus, Monisha Kaltenborn from Sauber, and the bejewelled Vijay Mallya. And naturally all of the conversation revolved around money, the distribution thereof. Opinions varied, as they say. Given that the occupants of the front seats were sitting comfortably, and two thirds of the back row were watching their personal fortunes dwindle in front of their very eyes, it's hardly surprising.

The fact that there wasn't a conclusion reached shouldn't come as a surprise. As Messrs Boullier and Wolff both said, F1 is the pinnacle of motor sport, and if you can't stand the heat, etc.....

As is usual in F1, the participants all bat for their own side and are fiercely competitive animals out to win even the slightest advantage from their rivals, I was left with the impression that the Formula 1 teams wouldn't be capable of reaching agreement on whether it was day or night if they thought that they could gain an advantage from countering what their opponents were saying.

Unless somebody (Jean Todt) can intervene and stop the sport from being financially plundered by a third party which has no interest in anything other than enriching its shareholders, it looks as though more teams will go the way of Caterham, HRT and Marussia, lured into Formula 1 by the promise of a cost cap which never materialised.

[Backward point]

Breaking news: The teams lower down the food chain may be organising a boycott of the race. Word is that it may be along the lines of the US Grand Prix at Indianapolis when the Michelin runners all pulled into the pit lane at the end of the formation lap and only the Bridgestone runners started the race.

Desperate stuff, but unless some form of drastic action is taken, the smaller teams fear that they will be forced out of the sport.

The FIA and commercial rights holders might get the wake-up call that they need.

[Huertecilla]

The FIA and commercial rights holders might get the wake-up call that they need.

Just a threat obviously but the wake-up call is the VERY real situation that unless something drastic is done RIGHT NOW, there will be 14 cars on the grid next year.

With the current field already getting lost in the space even on increasingly condensed tracks, THAT must surely be wake-up call to reinvent racing again; to make it worthwhile for all competitors and the spectators.
The current situation is a bad show all round.
Wake-up calls are only good for anything if the spectators vote by switching channels. THAT is where the money is invested in.

I missed the training yesterday, lost interest in the highlights. Again felt sorry for the also rans and a bit more for Vettel.

For those who miss my point I will spell it out:
I am quite gutted and VERY angry.
This season had all the ingredients for a thriller and I was really excited about the wonderful technology when I came back from the training session at Jerez.
I am a fanatic for high tech automotive engineering and a true racer at heart; I feel terribly let down. As a spectator I feel insulted for them wasting my time.

Unless the spectators vote with the channel they chose, nothing much is going to change so in way I blame you guys; the lot moaning about ME.
Don't you get ii?
Unless there is massive moaning and a measurable trend towards turning away, nothing will really happen.
Don't shoot the messenger, look in the mirror. YOU are the cause of it all.
Want to save F1? Switch channel and say so on fora.

[~dadam02~]

It's been hard to miss your point when you've been playing the same broken record for the best part of 6 months. Reading between the lines we all know that the only reason for your continual moaning is the lack of competitiveness of Vettel, nothing whatsoever to do with anything else.

Just leave it eh.

[hogthrob]

When the chaff consistently outweighs the wheat, I find the ignore list to be very useful. Now all I need is for everyone else to stop responding to and especially stop quoting the troll.

[~dadam02~]

There's an ignore button?? *extremelyshockedfacesmilie*

This is groundbreaking stuff, where can one find this button?

You are of course completely right, I knew I was feeding it as I was typing but couldn't resist pressing the submit button. No more.

[Tuna1138]

looking forward to todays race, unfortunately it will be highlights only when I finish work this evening.
Great track the drivers seem to love and enjoy racing on.

Rosberg put together a great Qualifying lap, it will be interesting to see how/if he keeps his cool.

Hopefully Hamilton will get to grips with his brake 'issue' and be all over Rosberg early on

it's a shame about the reduced numbers on the grid, especially for the fans trackside, lets hope they all race...

[jaytip]

I know that the teams at the back of the grid are a good way for new drivers to enter F1 but to be honest, I don't mourn the fact that they are not on the grid today. They are completely uncompetitive and often get in the way of the "real" race when the leaders come up to lap them.

[JasonM]

I know that the teams at the back of the grid are a good way for new drivers to enter F1 but to be honest, I don't mourn the fact that they are not on the grid today. They are completely uncompetitive and often get in the way of the "real" race when the leaders come up to lap them.

Then you might as well have standard matched cars....

[jaytip]

Then you might as well have standard matched cars....

And would that really be so bad? It would certainly show who the best drivers are all else being equal.

[Backward point]

And would that really be so bad? It would certainly show who the best drivers are all else being equal.

Yes.

One-make racing is dull.

The whole ethos of Formula 1 is that the teams must construct their cars themselves. The rules have become more prescriptive and therefore restrictive, but (for example) the Red Bull has a weaker engine and ERS system, but can generate more downforce. And has won three races so far this year.

There are plenty of series which mandate a single engine supplier and chassis manufacturer. You wouldn't bother to watch a whole season, believe me.

[jez]

Well done Lewis , a very mature drive for the win. Ricciardo put in another stand out performance . Overall a good race with an enthusiastic atmosphere .

[CardShark]

5 wins from the last 5 races! C'mon Lewis! Ricciardo looked about as happy as Rosberg looked dejected on the podium.

With Hamilton's 10 wins to Rosberg's 4 so far it would be cruel if the Driver's Championship wasn't won by the Brit, however with double points up for grabs at Yas Marinas it ain't over 'til it's over.

[Foxy100]

There are plenty of series which mandate a single engine supplier and chassis manufacturer. You wouldn't bother to watch a whole season, believe me.

TVR Tuscans were great. Carrera Cup is dull dull dull. Anything sans downforce tends to be more interesting.

[Jeremy67]

Why o why didn't McLaren queue Button rather then send him round for a lap on utterley knackered tyres.

[paul360m]

Well, despite the ridiculousness of double points at Abu Dhabi, I'm very glad that I will be there to see the title decider!

Thought there was some very good racing yesterday & particularly love that 'Maggots/Becketts' section of the track - the cars look truly awesome through that section.....

What was the deal with Vettel - he was slower than a slow thing during the first half of the race & the car looked an absolute handful but he was pretty quick towards the end - was it just tyres???

[lst65]

5 wins from the last 5 races! C'mon Lewis! Ricciardo looked about as happy as Rosberg looked dejected on the podium.

With Hamilton's 10 wins to Rosberg's 4 so far it would be cruel if the Driver's Championship wasn't won by the Brit, however with double points up for grabs at Yas Marinas it ain't over 'til it's over.

If there's any justice then Lewis will take the title....10 wins versus 4 demonstrates that but so does the fact that Lewis still has one more retirement this year than Rosberg. Come on Lewis!

[dja21]

Great drive by Lewis! Rosberg didn't seem happy at all when they were waiting to head up to the podium. I think he deserves the title this year, consistently better than Rosberg all season.

Looking forward to seeing Ricciardo next season too, what a guy

[Andyg]

Great drive from Lewis. Proper proper racer.

[TikTokTrev]

I've just been reading the various permutations caused by the double points in Abu Dhabi.
If Hamilton has a DNF Rosberg could well end up as champion....I suppose the whole idea was to keep the championship alive but it seems barmy to me.

[JasonM]

I hope it does happen that way, for one, I don't like Hamilton, two, it would show how idiotic the idea was in the first place. Hamilton deserves to be champion this season and if the double point last race would be a crap way to lose it... Who would want to be WC if that's how you won it? It would be forever tainted ....

[jaytip]

So someone explain it to me please. Is it just 1st place that gets double points or does everyone who gets points get double???

[JasonM]

Just the winner..

[Dave+63]

Everybody gets double points so 50 for 1st, 36 for 2nd etc.

[mtagrant]

Everybody gets double points so 50 for 1st, 36 for 2nd etc.

This

Just the winner..

Not this

[JasonM]

Ahhhhh bugger... Lol

[oldandgrumpy]

Sauber have surprised everyone by signing Ericsson and Williams' test driver Nasr :

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/m...d-9843190.html

Sutil has always maintained he has a contract for next year.

And the latest rumour about where Alonso will be next year - Williams :

http://www.espn.co.uk/blogs/motorspo...ry/182717.html

[JasonM]

Well, its official, Marussia is no more after they failed to find a buyer, my mate, one of the 2 chief mechs is one of 200 who have lost their jobs today...
They had asked Bernie for their points money early to keep them going but he said no..


Eddie Jordan has summed it up nicely....
BBC F1 chief analyst Eddie Jordan said: "There are four reasons why the three teams who entered F1 in 2010 have all failed.
"First, Caterham [previously Lotus], Marussia [previously Virgin] and HRT were promised that the sport would have a budget cap of 50m Euros and governing body the FIA failed to impose this.
"Secondly, the costs for an engine were about £5m last year but have gone up to £15m this season with the introduction of new turbo hybrid engines. Who's accountable? It's Bernie Ecclestone's job to make sure promises are adhered to, and these costs are not coming down next year even though the manufacturers originally said they would.
"Thirdly, teams have to use Ecclestone's freight but the costs of this are high. There used to be a £10m payment from the commercial rights holder to teams to support the freight costs but Ecclestone withdrew that two years ago, saying he needed the money to pay Mercedes more.
"Fourthly, there is the gross disparity of of $300m being skimmed off the top of the money allocated to pay the teams as a cash payment for the top five teams, Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, Williams and Mercedes."
Marussia have folded despite having their best season in four years in F1.
Marussia currently lie ninth in the championship thanks to the two points Bianchi scored by finishing ninth in Monaco.
They will retain that place officially, but when it comes to allocating the prize money from this season, the remaining team below them - Sauber - will be moved up and receive the funds instead