Please sign this petition - future of e-cigs under major threat

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Said it before and will say it again. This is nothing to do with health and is purely financial. They are a huge threat to pharma and tobacco.

Have to say pretty disappointed with some of the responses. Ecigs can save millions of lives but this is ignored and you prefer to believe the propaganda.

Finally it's none of your business what I do with my own body

Your opinions - nothing more.

There is little data or statistics around right now and for that reason along the brakes need applying.

BTW - everything I do in my life is no business of yours or anybody else's but try and see a slightly less myopic view at least.

[sidders]

Your opinions - nothing more.

There is little data or statistics around right now and for that reason along the brakes need applying.

BTW - everything I do in my life is no business of yours or anybody else's but try and see a slightly less myopic view at least.

It's all about finances and you are incredibly naive if you think it's anything to do with health. Politicians are purely there for big business and the rich elite. Certainly not there for the man in the street.

Wouldn't say it's a myopic view. Too much of the nanny state and sticking noses in other people's business nowadays. It really is of no concern of anyone what I do with my own body.

Have used ecigs for 8 months now and my health has certainly improved. I don't cough anymore, so much more energy and hopefully all the toxins from 25 years of smoking are out of my body. That's good enough for me.

[Michael_Mcr]

It really is of no concern of anyone what I do with my own body.

Absolutely.

You have a constitutional right to stick as many patches on your body as you see fit, and you also have the same constitutional right to eat as much nico-gum as you can manage.

But when you want to start blowing second hand water / nicotine vapour into my air-space then I am afraid that your rights are cancelled out by my rights to not have to breathe in such vapour.

I also have a constitutional right to be bothered that the substances in these e-cigs, which are being used in public places, are not regulated and standardised.

I could draw a parallel with people who smoke real cigarettes - they are completely oblivious to how much they absolutely stink of fags and when they pop back into the office / pub after a smoke they just cant understand why non-smokers look at them in that way.

Honestly, I really am not trying to just be difficult or a troll, it is that many smokers and vapors can only see the difficulties to be overcome in fulfilling their nicotine addiction (and it is an addiction). They think that non-smokers are just moaning tarts and that really isn't the case.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

It's all about finances and you are incredibly naive if you think it's anything to do with health. Politicians are purely there for big business and the rich elite. Certainly not there for the man in the street.

Wouldn't say it's a myopic view. Too much of the nanny state and sticking noses in other people's business nowadays. It really is of no concern of anyone what I do with my own body.

Have used ecigs for 8 months now and my health has certainly improved. I don't cough anymore, so much more energy and hopefully all the toxins from 25 years of smoking are out of my body. That's good enough for me.

At what point did I mention health?

There needs to be some meaningful investigations before millions of people can freely buy this kind of thing - but as a user you will obviously disagree.

Please do not bring politics into this - see G+D rules.

BTW - please stop the lecture, nicotine is an incredibly addictive substance (but you know that) and you can gloss it over all you want but as a non smoker the whole 'vaping' thing is equally irritating when somebody is doing it in your face as fags were (are).

And, no - I will not be signing the petition.

[sidders]

Absolutely.

You have a constitutional right to stick as many patches on your body as you see fit, and you also have the same constitutional right to eat as much nico-gum as you can manage.

But when you want to start blowing second hand water / nicotine vapour into my air-space then I am afraid that your rights are cancelled out by my rights to not have to breathe in such vapour.

I also have a constitutional right to be bothered that the substances in these e-cigs, which are being used in public places, are not regulated and standardised.

I could draw a parallel with people who smoke real cigarettes - they are completely oblivious to how much they stink of fags and when they pop back into the office / pub after a smoke they just cant understand why non-smokers look at them in that way.

Honestly, I really am not trying to just be difficult or a troll, it is that many smokers and vapors can only see the difficulties to be overcome in fulfilling their nicotine addiction (and it is an addiction). They think that non-smokers are just moaning tarts and that really isn't the case.

Who said I was breathing anything into your airspace? What next? Going to stop someone breathing out if they have had a food you don't like? Put a cork in all exhaust pipes? I assume as a human being you fart and belch. Sure you are not worried about anyone else breathing that in and violating their rights.

I actually do agree with you about public places and never vape where I couldn't smoke but your argument about breathing in my water vapour is ridiculous.

[sidders]

At what point did I mention health?

There needs to be some meaningful investigations before millions of people can freely buy this kind of thing - but as a user you will obviously disagree.

Please do not bring politics into this - see G+D rules.

BTW - please stop the lecture, nicotine is an incredibly addictive substance (but you know that) and you can gloss it over all you want but as a non smoker the whole 'vaping' thing is equally irritating when somebody is doing it in your face as fags were (are).

And, no - I will not be signing the petition.

And so is caffeine? Shall we regulate jars of Nescafe too?

[Chris_in_the_UK]

And so is caffeine? Shall we regulate jars of Nescafe too?

You need to do some reading on addictive substances.

My point was that whilst many smokers see this as their salvation there is little hard research and there needs to be. Remember cigarettes were considered harmless along with asbestos and DDT - time and research suggests not. Whilst the use of ecigs stops the inhalation of lots of toxic crap that are byproducts of burning tobacco it leaves lots of unanswered issues. To name 2:-

What are the effects of the nicotine by itself?

Who monitors and standardises the market - what of the issues of poor quality and questionable chemicals?.

Smokers have done themselves and everybody else no favours over the years in terms of sociability - please do not try and claim that anything has changed until it is proven otherwise.

My last words on this - debate away folks.

[millie-mail]

Cigarettes and E-Cigs ... they're all substitute titty bottles ... babies' dummies ... nobody needs 'em.

dunk

Right, ok. Leave it there then.

[sidders]

You need to do some reading on addictive substances.

My point was that whilst many smokers see this as their salvation there is little hard research and there needs to be. Remember cigarettes were considered harmless along with asbestos and DDT - time and research suggests not. Whilst the use of ecigs stops the inhalation of lots of toxic crap that are byproducts of burning tobacco it leaves lots of unanswered issues. To name 2:-

What are the effects of the nicotine by itself?

Who monitors and standardises the market - what of the issues of poor quality and questionable chemicals?.

Smokers have done themselves and everybody else no favours over the years in terms of sociability - please do not try and claim that anything has changed until it is proven otherwise.

My last words on this - debate away folks.

Just making the point that caffeine is addictive and is known to cause health problems but there is no call to regulate it.

Ecigs are already regulated as any product for sale legally is. I know exactly the ingredients I am vaping and where they have come from

[gamingdave]

Chris and Michael, have you actually read any other the links I posted?

There has been a lot of studies already done over decades on the constituent parts. We know an awful lot about nicotine obviously, PG which is the base liquid we also know lots about. Its used in inhalers for asmatics and smoke machines used in music venues and on film sets. Both have had extensive research done on them and more is being done all the time.

Refer to my earlier posts for links to studies.

Chris, you say there had been too few studies so we should hit the brakes. There has been studies but most are being ignored. And it the EC got their way it wouldn't be hitting the brakes. It would be tacking the wheels off, melting down the track, and burying the engine on the moon. It may not be there intention and I won't say what I think regarding politics or financial motives, but what they have proposed really would be the nail in the coffin for e-cigs and millions of people who would continue to smoke as apposed to having a safer alternative.

I may sound like a broken record to some of you, but it's only because it appears no one who is pro medical regulation in here appears to have read the evidence. I know the majority here are intellegent and polite, and its why I posted here not the pit, but it does appear to me some people are using either prejidece against tobacco (which I can understand) or some of the misinformation that has been reported.

Please read the Clive Bates assessment of the latest proposal then tell me if you can find fault in his overall reasoning.

As I have said before. There already is a raft of legislation that cover these devices, more may be needed in the future, but meds regulation is not the correct thing to do.

[gamingdave]

I'm happy to dig out specific links to research though a lot can be found on the previous links. Currently on a train though and phone battery is low.

As for who regulates? Al the products must conform to EU and UK law including weights and measures, electrical saftey, packaging and more.

ECITA are a trade body who have done a lot of good work setting up standards and guidelines and provide independent labs to test liquids. Honestly, if you bother to read up on the subject you'll find a lot of information out there.

The SWOF videos on YouTube are a good starting point for a quick summation of the current situation and you may be surprised at both some of the information you learn and who is saying it.

And Michael, I agree, you have a right not to have vapour interfere or effect your life. But that should not prevent me or millions of other ex smokers from pursuing something we enjoy which could very well save our lives.

[sidders]

Well said Dave. I was accused of having a myopic view earlier in the thread but think that can apply to others aswell. Seems as if people assume they are bad because they contain nicotine and produce vapour. If they were prepared to read the evidence then they might see that this is not the case

[millie-mail]

Lots of good points for and against a potential ban on ecigs. The whole thing stinks of corruption. Lots of data but how reliable is it? Two million users in the UK? The demand will still be there when the ban comes into force and will just fuel the black market. I can drink and smoke myself to death and I can gamble myself into poverty but I won't be able to chug on my chosen ejuice. Well I will be personally importing my own juice and wire and wick will always be available.

I don't consider myself an irresponsible person, I only vape in places and situations where I would have smoked, it assisted the transition initially. I don't blow vapour in peoples faces either.

Lots of issues here and people power is a potent force but I would have asked people to take a look at the legislation and sign the petition if happy to. Nothing happens till 2016 anyhoo so lots of time for changes to the proposed EU legislation.

Dave.