Reply With QuoteWow! Dreamwatch!!! Catch of the year. Unless you plan to never sell it I'd not relume. Better to have poor lume than relume. I'd try to source a bracelet and perhaps a bezel.
Evening all.
As I'm sure you can imagine, I was pretty excited to get hold of this all-original, one owner Speedmaster 2998-62. As you can see, it's a proper barn-find. It comes to me from the first and only owner, who bought it new in the UK in 1962. Box and papers long gone, sadly. He had a very interesting career in some very dodgy parts of the world, which explains his watch's very battered state. The crown and winding stem fall out, but once shoved back in the watch winds and runs, and the chrono hands all appear to run and reset fine. All hands seem to be correct for a 2998-62 - ie dauphine with a 'spear' chrono seconds hand and the straight, thin sub-dial hands.
I'm about to ask STS to restore it, and look forward to posting some 'after' pix once it's done.
But I'd really appreciate the advice of the forum on three points first.
Bezel: it's the correct, original high-dot item, but in the worst condition I've ever seen: actually ground away in places! It will be a shame to replace it as the watch is otherwise completely original but I think it's too far gone to keep. But what do I replace it with? I assume my chances of finding a replacement high-dot-over-90 are next-to-none? And a new one will just look too new...
Dial and hands: based on my poor pictures, would our resident Speedy experts recommend a clean or a full re-lume? And if it's a relume, would you have it done by STS, or a specialist?
Value: I don't intend to sell this immediately, but being realistic I probably will want to move it on eventually, as I have a really special 145.102 to which I'm very attached. So I don't want to overspend on the restoration. How would you value this, once it's had an STS restoration and assuming it gets a modern replacement bezel?
Thanks in advance for any advice. Hope you find this as nerdishly exciting as I do!
Wow! Dreamwatch!!! Catch of the year. Unless you plan to never sell it I'd not relume. Better to have poor lume than relume. I'd try to source a bracelet and perhaps a bezel.
I'd do nothing other than polish the crystal and have the movement serviced.
Cheers
Foggy
Very nice find indeed.
The chronograph hand on other 2998's I have seen are usually straight, the sub dial hands could also be replacements (usually dagger/Dauphine).
Dot over 90 bezels do come up for sale too so I will keep my eyes peeled for you. That plexi with a bit of 1200 wet and dry and some poliwatch should come up like new if it hasn't got any cracks or crazing. Crown looks like a newer one.
The watch will be a beauty when finished. Prices usually go from 3500 - 7500 depending on condition. I can see around £4000-£4500 maybe a bit more in this one. (edit) probably more if it is all original.
The movement looks in great nick.
I like this watch a lot.
Good luck with it.
Cheers Mick
Might have looked like this originally but being a 62 it shows exactly the same characteristics of a 105.002 of the same year so could be all original. I know there are members who know more than me.
Last edited by Michael E; 16th August 2013 at 18:56.
This.Originally Posted by Foggy
F.T.F.A.
Great find! I'm also with Foggy and Magirus - if it were me I'd do the absolute minimum...
Rob
Another plus one from me. I'd only have the case cleaned, the movement serviced and the crystal polished. Stick it on a nice leather NATO and you're good to go!
That looks an awesome watch.
Agreed. It's got quite a history and as much of that should be kept as possible. I actually think the bezel will look fine on the watch once the crystal has been done.
I'm on the crystal and service train too - superb find!
Hi Mick - thanks for the comments and valuation! This Danish site (translated) seems to suggest that the hands on this one are all original and correct - the 2998-62 was the final version before the 105s, so shares its hands with them.
http://translate.google.com/translat...%3D326&act=url
And to all - thanks for your kind comments - surprised to hear you all advising to keep the bezel - it is VERY knackered but still looks better on the wrist than in these pix, so maybe I will leave it on...
Keep the comments coming, much appreciated!
That's what I was thinking. Definitely wouldn't chuck it!
First dibs please!!
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Great find
Great watch!! I would get the mechanism cleaned , crown and pushers checked, glass polished and I would look for a used period correct bezel a little bit less worn yet with some use/ character. ..that's all...
Sound very plausible. This is a 105.002-62, It looks the same to me with all the same detail. Happy days!
I think it's all been said really. Service, new crystal if the original won't polish, and keep the bezel (in a drawer if it's too beaten for your taste).
It is worth underlining your needs to whoever you trust it to. Eg, don't touch the hands, pushers or crown if you can get away with keeping things as they are.
A superb watch and a great find.
Cheers Simon
I would second that, if you want to keep the collectible value then keep it as original as possible, however if you want to have it as a practical wearable watch (while not losseing too much value) then keep all the parts, but find a pre loved bezel online and have the case cleaned with a light polish, along with a hand clean (do you research and find the best for the hands)
That. Without a doubt.
That's a hell of a find. You can get it over-restored anytime :) but getting one like that is perhaps something that will only happen to you once. You might be pleasantly surprised at just how much difference polishing the crystal alone will make to the overall look of the watch, bezel included. My suggestion would be to do no more than that and then enjoy it.
Lovely.
Hi
Great find....lovely , really lovely....a great candidate for a 'wolf in sheep's clothing' - controversial , but perhaps just have it serviced only - that's it....done
STS will carry out all of your individual requirements and will defer the case refinish within the 2yr warranty period if you ask nicely....just discuss it in advance of booking it in !
Best - Neil
+1
It's stunning and wot a find........
I would have the movement serviced and the crystal polished. Maybe replace the bezel.
PLEASE LEAVE THE DIAL AND HANDS ALONE! I really think they are perfect as they are.
Great find, and thanks for sharing.
Chye
I'd get STS to restore it completely with new dial, hands and a complete case refinish.
Only joking, service and crystal and leave the case and bezel as they are.
"A man of little significance"
As a firm collector of vintage watches (i'm a Heuer only collector) i have to say this story by the OP really appealed to me.
Its fantastic to see these older treasures "unearthed" and appreciated again.
My advice and the logic behind my thoughts.
Just as many here a suggesting, i feel its best to be very sympathetic to this grand old piece.
Crystal polish, movement service & change of seals.
Dont have the case polished as that involves removing material, any specialist watchmaker will place the case in an ultrasonic cleaner and thats all this beauty needs.
Long term project - keep an eye out to see if you can find a rare extra bezel in faded condition the same with trying to find a matching bracelet but these extras are quite frankly unnecessary as you have a truely amazing Grail Find here.
Well done - Darren
Just clean it and enjoy it for what it is, for it is a great find.
Thanks all for the comments. Will take your advice and just go for movement service, retain crown and pushers if possible, clean dial/hands/case but not relume or refinish, polish/change crystal and keep bezel, unless I find a period-correct high-dot replacement. 'After' pix will follow, of course!
Any more thoughts on value once this is done? Mick suggests £4k - I hadn't expected it to be that much. Is that realistic for a direct sale to another collector, perhaps via SC?
Thanks again.
Revisiting this thread for two reasons
1) To enquire what the OP ended up doing in terms of restoration
2) To show a couple of pics of my barn find from the weekend. A 1961 example, ref 2998-5, bought from the original owner. Been through the wars a bit, but still a nice find. Also on original bracelet with correct end pieces ;-) Looking forward to having this gently restored and owning it for many years to come.
Cheers
Foggy
Man...how come I never find these beauties.
I was just thinking that.....
Bad kharma I think. Just kidding. Nice catch!!
I too would love to know what the OP ended up doing.
Contratulations to Foggy as that is a cracker of a Speedy. Can't wait to see what you do with it.
I got my 2998-6 62 in similar circumstances about a year ago. It came to me via a Rolex collector who took it in a trade from the original (or at least very long-term owner). It was missing the outer part of one pusher and the crystal was badly crazed. Otherwise it was totally original, with a very presentable bezel. Fortunately I had an old Tissot chrono case form the same era and was able to salvage the correct pusher part.
I sent it to Duncan @ Genesis for a full service and he rebuilt the pushers, replaced the crystal and carried out a pressure test - it passed, with the original pushers and crown. Mine has the same main and sub-dial hands as the OP's, but the chrono secs is the plain, straight style. It's 100% original, apart from the used, replaced pusher button and is on a DB Rally strap / Omega buckle.
*Just a thought about the bezel. Look out for a 1969 Moonwatch - these often have the older bezel in good condition and can be swapped for a new, service item without any great loss of value. This way you will get the correct bezel in good condition and can sell the '69 on again.
Last edited by TomGW; 3rd December 2013 at 16:56.
From what I can see, the case looks to be in very good, original, condition, so I wouldn't get it refinished.
If pushers need replacing, make sure it is with the correct size ones (4mm) and if the crown is original, keep that safe.
However, in common with most others, I would advise doing nothing more than a service and a new (or polished) crystal.
Another 2998-62
Last edited by Stanford; 3rd December 2013 at 18:19.
Amen to that. We're obviously looking in the wrong type of barn!
jeff
HiAmen to that. We're obviously looking in the wrong type of barn!
jeff
They do turn up from time to time....this one even has it's original bevelled edges and the lugs are still sharp to the touch !
Best - Neil
Another nice acquisition! Well done.
Here's mine back from Duncan at Genesis today after service etc.
Cheers
Foggy
Really nice, Foggy. Agree with the conservative approach to the case. Lovely find :)
Very nice Ian, very nice indeed!I think we should try for an informal gtg this year, so I can take a closer look at this?!!
Now that just looks cool!Here's mine back from Duncan at Genesis today after service etc.
Cheers
Foggy
What strap\bracelet are you going for?
Thanks for the nice comments, guys.
I have the original bracelet and endpieces, but they are fragile and showing their age so will probably wear this one on a strap. Might go down the route of having somthing nice made - i think it's worth some extra expense. If anyone has any suggestions, please share.
Cheers
Foggy
It would be rude not to get one of the Omega-style straps from Cousins. Not bad for just over a fiver and Jack Norman insists that they are the same strap (without logo) that Omega charge 60 for.
https://www.cousinsuk.com/catalog/wa...ega-style-calf
In the Sotadic Zone, apparently.
Loving these old Speedmasters being lightly restored and worn. Lovely.
Looking good, that was a great find.
Nice one Ian, that looks cracking!
Cheers,
Neil.
Great looking watch, makes my modern speedy look a bit boring.
Looks stunning as it is I would just polish the crystal.
I would be interested to hear what the original owner did as it is quite battered, and think that adds a lot to the watch?
*envious*Revisiting this thread for two reasons
1) To enquire what the OP ended up doing in terms of restoration
2) To show a couple of pics of my barn find from the weekend. A 1961 example, ref 2998-5, bought from the original owner. Been through the wars a bit, but still a nice find. Also on original bracelet with correct end pieces ;-) Looking forward to having this gently restored and owning it for many years to come.
Cheers
Foggy
I love stuff like this.
Service the movement and leave the rest alone I reckon. If you sold it, the new owner would have the options then.
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