What about a Timefactors ATP?

[SimonK]

The Douglas Bader watch thread made me think about how handsome and legible ATP watches were. The original spec' called for a white face, arabic numerals, luminous hands and hour markers and a 15 jewel shockproof movement. There were 17 makers, as far as I know, and sizes varied from 30 - 32mm, although I believe the Moeris was the biggest at 33mm with 18mm lugs.

Here are a couple of mine




So what about an updated Precista ATP?

[Rollon]

Hi Simon. I like the look of your Moeris ATP (I had to do a search to find out that stands for "Army Time Piece" as I've been heretofore unaware of these), especially as to the dial effect created by the contrast between the (silvered?) subdial and (off-white?) dial proper, with the (orange hued?) aged (radium?) lume of the hour/minute hands. Looks very nice and I do like these.

I'm even personally good with the 33mmW case size as that's what I usually wear. Many of the U.S. military issue field/pilot watches of WWII and even on up to 1988 with the last of the steel case U.S. issue Hamiltons and their direct commercial market counterparts made on the original Lancaster, PA military production line until 2002/3 were very close to nearly identical in size to your Moeris, though the later Hamiltons were just a bit longer in the lugs I think. By current standards that's very small as you know, and, as is, might be a hard sell unless compact WWII size watches somehow come back into style (and I doubt that is imminent). Maybe 36mm like the Smiths 29A might be good for many, though.

Perhaps the same sub seconds mechanical movements Eddie plans to use for the projected "Two More Smiths" >> http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...wo-more-Smiths<< might be very suitable for recreating a Timefactors ATP like your Moeris as well. And as regards what looks in your photo of the Moeris to be nicely orange hued aged radium based period lume, that might be very well duplicated (without any potential health hazard) by the same specially formulated "aged" Luminova type lume used in the recently introduced TF PRS-20C California Dial "Italian".

I also read some on Douglas Bader --- quite a life and very impressive, and quite surprised and even further impressed to find he turned his hard disability to advantage as a fighter pilot in that he could apparently stand more G-Force because, unlike his opponents, his blood had no legs to flow away to when his brain needed it most.

Thanks for bringing both Bader and the Moeris ATPs up, very interesting to learn of both. Rollon

[Tickeros]

I like the look of that. Reminds me a bit of the Archimede Vintage. I think it's been discontinued though.

[brobr]

Hi Simon. I like the look of your Moeris ATP (I had to do a search to find out that stands for "Army Time Piece" as I've been heretofore unaware of these), ...

I also read some on Douglas Bader --- quite a life and very impressive, and quite surprised and even further impressed to find he turned his hard disability to advantage as a fighter pilot in that he could apparently stand more G-Force because, unlike his opponents, his blood had no legs to flow away to when his brain needed it most.

Thanks for bringing both Bader and the Moeris ATPs up, very interesting to learn of both. Rollon

Thanks for this comment, I looked up on this and was struck by the amazing characters one can find about and their histories. Via a Daily Mail piece on Douglas Bader I learned about another amazing personality, Sgt Dixie Deans , and about the experiences of people around him in the POW camp where he was elected as camp leader. Sgt Deans was shot down not far from where my parents grew up and this story reminded me of my mother as a 14-year old hiding in a ditch, scared by a dog-fight happening above her head.

If ever anything comes of making this 'ATP', and if it is linked to a WWII-personality, maybe Sgt Deans might be the one; Douglas Bader has already been honoured this way (Douglas-Bader-Signature-Edition-Spitfire-70th-Anniversary-Chronograph.html).

[Glamdring]

The Presista PRS 6 meets your requirements other than that it has a black dial. Small, military style with a subdial for the second hand. One of Eddie's first, they're hard to find. Mine needs a service as it's stopped winding. I don't have a picture to hand at the moment.

[davida]

Found this http://www.flickr.com/photos/97228579@N00/585925188/

[SimonK]

The Presista PRS 6 meets your requirements other than that it has a black dial. Small, military style with a subdial for the second hand. One of Eddie's first, they're hard to find. Mine needs a service as it's stopped winding. I don't have a picture to hand at the moment.

I know the PRS6 - I dithered and ummed and arred over buying one until they were sold out, so I bought a PRS 53 instead.

As for a picture - there is one in the virtual museum sticky above.

[OliverCD]

The PRS-6 is really a good watch, and I agree fills the criteria of the ATP specs. The face is very clear and easy to read. The watch feels quiet rounded - I think this is down to the dome of the crystal.

I had mine on last week and it appeared in the Friday thread. Here is another image of it.

[srivats]

^ I love the domed crystal on that one very much. Totally completes the watch.

[Rollon]

^ Great picture of the PRS-6

[dowsing]

The Presista PRS 6 meets your requirements other than that it has a black dial. Small, military style with a subdial for the second hand. One of Eddie's first, they're hard to find. Mine needs a service as it's stopped winding. I don't have a picture to hand at the moment.

Mines getting hard to wind now as well. Which is a shame as I've not worn it for a while now.

[Rollon]

The Presista PRS 6 meets your requirements other than that it has a black dial. Small, military style with a subdial for the second hand. One of Eddie's first, they're hard to find. Mine needs a service as it's stopped winding. I don't have a picture to hand at the moment.

Mines getting hard to wind now as well. Which is a shame as I've not worn it for a while now.

^ Another great picture of the PRS-6, Dowsing, as with Oliver's. I've never seen one in the hand, but I do remember them when they were still current. My attention was mostly drawn to the PRS-53 at the time and I hadn't fully realized what a nice looking watch the PRS-6 itself was until seeing some of the excellent pictures being shown of it more recently.

Also, since both yourself and Glamdring are having winding problems with your respective 6s, and because all the PRS-6 were made in one batch at the same time, my guess around 8 or 9 years ago or so, and also assuming neither of your watches have been serviced since manufacture, maybe the hard winding symptom comports with what I very recently read an apparently very experienced and knowledgeable watchsmith state regarding Swiss mechanical movements: Comparing Swiss mechanical movements to the Japanese Miyotas, he said the Swiss ones, even the very best of them, simply need to be serviced more often, on the order of at least every 5 years or so (which I've read elsewhere also) to keep them running well. I think he also stated, IIRC, something to the effect that hard winding problems with unserviced movements can often just be from oil in the mainspring barrel congealing into a sticky mass after years and lack of use.

As Glamdring indicates with his, maybe that's all it is. I've never had a watch with the FNH c.1380 movement http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-...wk&FHF_138_011 that is apparently in the PRS-6, but I've noticed that hand wind ETA c.2750/2801 movements too long unserviced do need more effort to wind up and also tend to start suffering slow timing, the latter also being something I would think comports with congealed lubricant in the works

[Imbrex]

The Douglas Bader watch thread made me think about how handsome and legible ATP watches were. The original spec' called for a white face, arabic numerals, luminous hands and hour markers and a 15 jewel shockproof movement. There were 17 makers, as far as I know, and sizes varied from 30 - 32mm, although I believe the Moeris was the biggest at 33mm with 18mm lugs.

Here are a couple of mine




So what about an updated Precista ATP?

I suppose the defining feature of these is the large sub dial that fills the bottom half of the dial. I think there will be problem finding a movement that will position the sub dial correctly on a larger modern version though.

It would be nice to see a 36-37mm version but only if it can have a correctly proportioned sub dial.

[Leif]

I suppose the defining feature of these is the large sub dial that fills the bottom half of the dial. I think there will be problem finding a movement that will position the sub dial correctly on a larger modern version though.

It would be nice to see a 36-37mm version but only if it can have a correctly proportioned sub dial.

The old Schild "Wehrmacht" movements did just that. Eddie located some NOS which he used in the PRS-9 CAF. The PRS-9 is 42mm but with more metal outside the dial than on these two watches.