Reply With QuoteWell and truly humiliated, Warner batted like he had total disdain and disrespect for England.
The final 2 tests are going to be dead rubbers unless Australia put out a youth or second team.
Would have been nice to win the toss. I wouldn't put it past the Aussies to use a double headed coin. http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/two-headed-coin
Well and truly humiliated, Warner batted like he had total disdain and disrespect for England.
The final 2 tests are going to be dead rubbers unless Australia put out a youth or second team.
Just like the Tests after our 2005 Ashes win. What on earth has gone wrong? It can't be a simple matter. They've just not looked like winners for a year, despite last summer's scores. Little aggression or determination. Poor fielding, ineffective bowling and batting that would shame a county side.
Internal politics? They're spending loads on coaching and fitness so money isn't an issue. Flower dragged us from despair to being number one, so - what now?
A reminder to the batsmen that they are paid handsomely to score runs for their country and that their comfortable central contracts will henceforth be subject to quarterly review would be a start.
Drop Root, Pietersen, Prior and bring in Ballance, Buttler and somebody at No 3 who's not bothered by short pitched bowling.
The fact that Mitchell Johnson happens to have hit some form has made a huge difference to what is an otherwise average attack, but one which is, at the moment, better than England can muster.
This has been a depressing and gutless performance by England, and there are several people, both players and coaching staff, who need to shape up or ship out. Cook's captaincy must be questioned, as he's too defensive and his own form has suffered.
We will have twelve Tests between the end of this tour and the next Ashes series. Next summer we have India, and there couldn't be a better opportunity to start rebuilding.
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
I understand that the Australian doctor who attended to Stuart Broad in the A&E, informed him he may have some difficulty in walking for the remainder of the series.
It's all gotten a bit the old days it seems to me
Whilst the England batters have been embarrassing with their shot selection and lack of desire and fight, I don't think the bowlers should escape. Regardless of what England have scored, we have been unable to stop Australia from amassing huge totals. To win tests you need an attack capable of taking 20 wickets and we have not picked the bowlers to do that.
Broad aside, our attack has been well down on pace, and all have been poor in execution of lines and lengths.
Anderson needs a rest. He is a world beater in the right conditions but on these pitches, with a Kookaburra ball, he is little more than a net bowler. The same goes for Bresnan who is barely registering 80mph. 79mph straight up and down won't even trouble decent league cricketers. His inclusion in this test was a major mistake and had more to do with shoring up England's batting than anything else. As the saying goes, if six batters can't get you the required runs then seven won't either.
We do actually have 3 bowlers in the squad who are capable of bowling at 90+ mph in Finn, Rankin and Tremlett, and all three are giants who extract extra bounce off of a good length. If, at 2 nil down, the England management can't pick them for a test on the fastest, bounciest track in world cricket then what the hell were they doing on the plane?
It is no wonder that Cook's captaincy is equally timid and defensive if that is the type of management team he has.
And as I said earlier in this thread, Tymal Mills should have been given a go. By far the quickest bowler on either side, and one the Aussies would have not faced too often, if at all. Will he too have to wait until his late twenties/early thirties before he gets a chance? By then the England Coaches will have drummed all the youthful arrogance and adventure out of him.
The Aussies are just flat track bullies who need a dose of their own medicine. Their necks would soon be wound right back in.
Last edited by hhhh; 15th December 2013 at 15:25.
Michael Vaughan's positive outlook;
Michael Vaughan, Ex-England captain on BBC Test Match Special
"There will be optimistic England fans thinking they can get these runs, but it has never been done before and the tail will have to face the second new ball. It will be late in the morning or just after lunch that Australia regain the Ashes."
Unless he's specifically tasked with providing the negativity (and I always thought that was Geoff Boycott's role), then he comes across as a miserable beggar most of the time does Vaughan.Originally Posted by damocook
Disgraceful all round really, especially after all that whitewash talk.
Of course that is coming true but the wrong way round.
My neighbour is an Aussie and I dread seeing him.
Cheers,
Neil.
Oh, I don't know. Not all the time. Taken from yesterday's TMS text commentary:
"After day three at the Gabba England were 537 runs behind, in Adelaide they were 530 behind. On this occasion it will only be about 370, so there are positives there."
Michael Vaughan, Ex-England captain
This message on the BBC Coverage made my chortle!!
Alan Orpin, TMS inbox: My name is Brother Optimisti and I'm a monk from a very closed order in Sussex. The last time we were permitted to listen to the wireless, Australia were 134-6 on the first day in Brisbane and of course we've heard nothing since. By my calculations, it is now the fourth day in Perth, and I'm assuming that England are on the brink of winning or retaining the Ashes...
Brilliant.
I woke this morning to discover that we have lost the Ashes.
Although for the first time in the series an English batsman, playing in only his second Test, has managed to score a century we have once more been outplayed in every department by Australia, so we really can't have any complaints.
Well played Ben Stokes, but congratulations to Australia.
It could be a long, hard road back for England.
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
Everything in cycles I guess.
We were World beaters for a time , and it's that mighty fall that is hard to take. But we will be back again.
As said elsewhere, time for a rebuild.
Just a bit gutting to have given up the Urn without so much as a whimper.
It is a great shame. The Australians opened with a storm of aggression, and it boggles me that (a) they didn't see it coming and (b) didn't respond by playing with even more aggression, and try to wipe them out. When playing Australians you need to sledge hard, cut right to the bone from the first minute of play. The few Aussies I know who actually play sports (most I know just watch it!) are the same, and you need to go in full tilt from the first second of play. It's normal in rugby - you're supposed to physically subdue the opponent - but in cricket, you need to make it mentally devastating for them. Of course, this is the natural status quo for the other side, so it's best to always play ugly. The scoreboard in future years won't record who sledged who - it'll record who won, and nothing else counts.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Great news... well done to the Australian Cricket team.
Borrowed this off an Australian news site... some interesting facts... Though somewhat biased in their presentation
Here are 11 numbers which illustrate England's demise in elegant arithmetical simplicity.
457
That's the number of runs Dave Warner has scored in three Tests, and not a single one of them has been a fluke. The aggressive New South Welshman wasn't a certainty for this series until he made a squillion runs in domestic one-day cricket. But he has managed to do precisely what so-called #RealOpeners do, namely blunt the opening bowlers, while also doing exactly what Dave Warner does so well, namely #BeltTheHellOutOfTheBall. Warner, like Steve Smith, is proof that T20 specialists can thrive in Test cricket with the right technique and a little patience.
260
A report on a major cricket website said that the England cricket team may well spend 260 nights in hotel rooms in 2013. Even for the modern professional sportsman accustomed to life on the road, that's a long time away from home, so it's little wonder England has been mentally flat all series. Test cricket requires the sort of mental application only a fresh mind can provide. England hasn't had that.
47.82
Australia has scored 2152 runs in three Tests for the loss of just 45 wickets. Average that out and we are averaging 47.82 runs per wicket. To put that number in perspective, England averaged a miserable 21 runs per wicket prior to its second innings at the WACA.
28
George Bailey has had a mixed debut series as a batsman for Australia. But his 28 runs off a Jimmy Anderson over did two things. Firstly, it equalled Brian Lara's record for the most runs in a Test over. Secondly and more importantly, it highlighted Australia's ability to change gears and play as the occasion demands. For example, Steve Smith made a plodding 111 off 208 balls in the first innings at he WACA. Smith is one of Australia's finest T20 talents, yet he dug his heels in during that crucial tone-setting first innings. England hasn't done this. Its batsmen have too often fallen to shots which were inappropriate given the state of the game.
15-20.
The number of bananas reportedly consumed by vegan fast bowler Peter Siddle every day. Supremely fit and tireless, Siddle symbolises the return of grit to Australian cricket. If you were tiling roofs or unblocking drains, you'd kill to have a bloke with his work ethic alongside you.
11
Stability is a wonderful thing in sport, and Australia has picked the same XI in each of the first three Tests. It's not clear when this last happened, but it'd be safe to assume you'd have to thumb your way through some extremely dusty old copies of cricket bible Wisden to find out.
7
Jimmy Anderson and Graeme Swann have been two of England's best in recent years. But in this series to date, they have taken just seven wickets each, despite bowling a combined 265 overs. That's a wicket every 19 overs, which is a polite way of saying "they're throwing pies".
2.5
Australia's bowlers have hunted as a pack. If Johnson doesn't get ya, Siddle or Harris or Lyon will. The key with our bowling attack is the way they've worked in tandem. There has been no release valve, as the four main bowlers have conceded a miserly 2.5 runs per over on average. By contrast, England's trundlers have gone for more than 3.5 runs an over. One extra run per over doesn't sound like much, but if you took, say, one cookie out of Shane Warne's cookie jar every over, it'd soon be empty. And Warnie would be mad.
2
The number of Ashes series this year, and a number which must never be repeated. The reason we had two Ashes series this year was to ensure that future series are not played immediately before ICC Cricket World Cups. All the same, it hasn't seemed right. If England has anything approaching a legitimate excuse for its capitulation, it could argue that it settled this thing fair-and-square in the Old Dart midyear. Mind you, if they ever actually did say that, we'd obviously be obliged to accuse them of Pommie whingeing.
1
Australia has dominated this series because its captain Michael Clarke and coach Darren Lehmann have moulded their team into a harmonious unit. They are one. Clarke, as ever, has set aggressive fields, made bold declarations and been an inspiration with the bat. He now averages well over 60 since grabbing hold of the team three years ago. Lehmann has encouraged players to work hard and go with their gut - and bugger the introspection and homework.
0
Prior to the second innings at the WACA, England had scored a grand total of no centuries compared to Australia's seven. Young Ben Stokes finally broke that duck today, when it was too late to make a difference. But if there was one moment when the number zero really epitomised England's demise, it was Alastair Cook's dismissal in the second innings at Perth. The England skipper received an absolute beauty from Ryan Harris, but he played it like a man trying to swat butterflies with a ping pong bat. And if you think that analogy was a bit of a muddle, you should see inside Alastair Cook's head.
1000
So vast is the gap between the sides that at one point on Monday afternoon at the Waca, Australia had scored 1,000 more runs than England.
From the BBC Sport website
Now we lose Swan - permanently. He's been at the heart of England's success since he was first called up. Who now to replace him. Currently and very sadly, the team are beaten from without and within.
It's all gone Pete Tong.
Swann's value to the team wasn't only in his wicket taking ability, but the impact he had within the dressing room.
One of the game's great characters, and probably irreplaceable.
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
Well at least we've now got a good idea who the token sportsman on next year's Strictly will be.
Monty likes a few sherries now and then. I'm sure he's ready to take on that mantle pretty seamlessly.
Shame he's a pap fielder though. Swann was a quality cricketer all-round in terms of low-order runs and overall quality slip catching and fielding.
Retirement was allegedly rumoured at least in the context of a last Ashes series, but it is a real loss to the England side - he really will be hard to replace in the long term, no English spinner has proved themselves to perform so consistently in a long time and Swann showed he's quality on the global stage over the last 5 years. Here's hope for Monty, to step up to the plate and show he has the variation when pitches are not completely spinner friendly.
This tour has been a disaster - the locker room is in a mess and 2 senior players have now packed it in during an Ashes tour. This part worries me, I would have liked to see Swann play on and 'fight' a bit for the last 2 Tests but it could also have been he was told he would be dropped and so decided on the more graceful approach. It also raises the question as to who's next. KP, Prior, Anderson?
It's never good to lose too many first team players in one go - replacing 2 at once is hard enough, so I hope a few of them stick around for the sake to breed new players into the team. This is really an end to an era - in the most unexpected/spectacular manner....we have to remember England went into this series as favourites!
Anyway, bring on the 4th Test - the Boxing Day test is a special one so hope the boys pick themselves up for a bit of fight!
(btw, anyone follow the SA vs Ind Test? What a match! Scandalous that politics got involved and limited the Test series to only 2 matches!)
Right chaps - this series is no way near over....pride to play for and possibly the greatest possible day in Test cricket - boxing day at the MCG with nearly 100,000 fans watching over. England humbled and I think will be focussed. Who remembers the outstanding Boxing day England had last time we were over???
Anyway looks as if Monty will be in and Bairstow for Prior. I'm all for changing things but I don't think Bairstow is the long term answer, I don't think he really is an international class batsmen. Anyway I'm excited (for now until Oz bowl us out for 150 or smash 350 runs in a day....) so let's hope the boys are up for it as well!
One last remark - Kallis retires. What an absolute legend anyone would have been happy with either of his bowling or batting record. For one person to achieve that is incredible. Greatest all rounder ever (especially as he was a quick bowler and not a spinner) and one of the greatest ever batsmen in his own right. SA despite a talented team have a huge gap to fill. I'm sad he didn't stay around a tad longer for one reason - I wanted him to finish higher than Ponting on the all time runs list
It would be nice if England had really bit the bullet and made significant changes to try a few more people before the summer, hopefully change the momentum. Think a couple of people could have been given a rest......Anderson, Peterson, bell, prior and broad who may not be fit anyway... As they have nothing to lose and they are already staring down the barrel of a whitewash
Ps we need to win the toss and bat for once unless the pitch us a shocker
Well we are batting - though Cook lost ANOTHER toss!
I think the England team didn't want to make whole sale changes in one go - something I agree with, it is still a team sport and if they had changed too much we would have got annihilated. Expect other changes in the next game. We also still have a lot of pride to regain - psychologically we will be a lot better off if we somehow claw our way back to 3-2....
Alastair Cook, clearly going for the Nasser Hussain award for the England captain who loses the toss most often.
Australia electing to bowl first wasn't much of a risk, given the dull conditions and the fact that they'll bat last without having to face Swann probably didn't hold too many fears for them. As Lord Gaaaah noted at the close, England's batsmen all managed to get in and then get out, but credit to Pietersen, still there at the close, and clearly relishing his role as pantomime villain.
Who knows? Shane Warne reckons that the wicket will be quicker tomorrow, so there's half a chance as long as somebody can stick around with KP for a while.
It could be a fascinating Test.
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
I'm going to cancel Sky Sports.
Well we didn't last much longer - our lower order simply blown away by the pace of Johnson. It's sad that Anderson and Monty played him better than half the team. The speed of how our innings comes to an end after being 5 or 6 down is a worry - the modern game needs competent batsmen all the way down to 9.
Anyway 255 is below par - I fear Australia will get somewhere in the region of 500....
Oz 164-9.....its amazing what a bit of pressure and batting first does to an opposition. I still believe this is not a great Oz team. Imagine if we had batted first in the first two Tests this could have been a different series.....
How many times over the last few years have we failed to finish off the tail in a timely manner? Still, maybe we can make a proper fist of this match and stop the Oz whitewash.
I am pretty sure the Aussie last wicket will put on another 30-40 runs and England will be 30-3 in no time...
I dont know what Cook's plan was to get the last wicket, he certainly didn't let Anderson know
Everyone looked a little lost in that period of play. Anyway still a decent lead - another 250 odd would put the Aussies in trouble.
I would feel pretty nervous if Australia were set only 300 or so to win, England must press home their advantage this time.
Genuinely can't work out what has happened to England on this tour, they're much better than they have shown so far.
Another exceedingly impressive batting performance from England - last 6 wickets fell for 5 runs
In comparison Haddin put on nigh on 40 for the last wicket. Some baffling shot selection and gifting wickets. People will say KP had to go for it 8 wickets down, but Haddin managed to get runs with the lower order. Says something about just how poor our lower order is. How Lyon got 5 wickets on a wicket that offered nothing will remain a mystery!
231 to win, let's see....
And yet our lower order were good not so long ago. Forgot Panesar's last stand in Cardiff to save that match? So what is so wrong now? The days of the team supporting numbers 9,10 and 11 should be long gone.
Were is a word we seem to be using far too frequently with this England team. The lower order is now an essential part of a batting line up in getting those extra 30-40 runs to boost a score. Some of the shots played were reckless from the likes of Broad who should know better. This is still Test cricket and they are attempting to slog the ball from the word go. Today was as bad a day as we've seen - on a pitch that seems to be getting better for batting, in a position where we ahead and able to turn the screw on Australia we just collapse. 3 wickets went for 1 run earlier in the day as well. England need to put a higher price on their wicket.
Fair play to KP though, he played brilliantly and given how things have gone, I can't really blame him for wanting to go for it. Good to see Cook back in some form as well - he got out to a decent ball.
I'm shocked at last nights performance I really thought it was the opportunity to get something from this series but all we got was another collapse. The sooner they come home the better
....and the end - the most humiliating of defeats because we were in the driving seat at the beginning of day 3 :/ . In a series of massive disappointments this was pretty bad. Didn't understand Cook not bowling Panesar and at the moment he is looking a bit of a weak captain. If Cook has no faith in Panesar, then drop him for someone Cook will actually use.
Need to stay positive and focused moving into the final Test, rebuilding starts now. For me the way Bell got out yesterday just sums up the tour....'what on earth was he thinking!?!?!'
Now here IS a cricketer and one of my favourite sportsmen Jaques Kallis, a ton in his final match.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/cricket/25540911
Kallis is a true great, easily the finest allrounder of his generation and up there with the best ever.
As for England avoiding a whitewash is the best we can hope for.
So Test match 5. Sadly the end is not anywhere near in sight as we also have the one dayers after this. Sigh.
Anyway 3 men make their debuts - Rankin, Borthwick and Ballance. The 3 men out? Bresnan, Monty and Root. Wait Root?!?!! Most expected Carberry out but this was a genuine shock. The only rationale is that Root needed a rest. Carberry has still scored the second highest number of runs out of the English batsmen. Bresnan was clearly rushed back and been largely ineffective and Cook as zero faith in Monty after the last Test.
This is a real experimental line up - my fear is they have a real lack of experience. I would have put Prior back in as I am totally unconvinced by Bairstow....Australia are unchanged. I hope Cook uses KP and Bell to get some advice as he looked a little lost in the last Test.
The biggest shock of all? Cook won a toss.....
We began brilliantly!
And then let it all go again. It remains a shattered side, though Stokes 6-99 was pretty good.
Agreed, a true great in an age where the term is abused. An absolute machine and went about it with the minimum of fuss too. Flintoff was fussed over a bit when he retired but he wasn't one tenth of the player that Kallis is.
I'd agree about Kallis, and he does seem to have been under-appreciated.
Although Flintoff duffing Kallis up a few years ago when South Africa toured here was one of the greatest overs ever bowled in Test cricket. In my opinion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-1oA29fWBo
We need another Andrew Flintoff right now. Ben Stokes looks promising, and it's good that England have given him a chance to prove himself after he was sent home from a Lions tour after an attack of ill-discipline.
England have nothing to lose in this Test, and it's a shame that they haven't been braver with their selections. Rankin looks like a bit of a liability, and I'd have been tempted to pick Tremlett or Finn instead, as long as they're fit. And find places for Jos Buttler and Michael Lumb, neither of whom are shy when facing the short ball, which appears to be Australia's main weapon.
Oh well. Let's see what we can do. Although it's likely to involve some timid batting and predictable bowling, I fear.
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
I can't even bear to talk about it any longer.
And I'm still hiding from my Aussie neighbour up the road.
Cheers,
Neil.
Sigh. Another abject display....I give up
Heathrow will be a very quiet place when they fly home.
Sadly a fair few ODIs to go, although I don't think a number of the England 'stars' are participating?
This is a funny piece.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/25601162
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