Reply With QuoteI'm about to go down and vote!!!
Now I'm not a fan of imperialism (as it's legacy is party the cause of a lot of the world's current problems IMO), but surely it's a little hypocritical of Argentina to question the validity of the results of a democratic question of self-determination. After all Argentina is a country that was stolen from it's original native owners (who no doubt was made up of factions that fought over it), became a colony of an imperial power, whose people then decided they wanted to be independent of that power, and thus became a sovereign state. I don't really see what moral claim they have on a island whose people actually wish to remain under the protectorship of another (and I use this word advisedly) power.
I'm about to go down and vote!!!
The Falklands are more British than Britain, fantastic island, fantastic people
RIAC
Are you a Falklander?Originally Posted by kultschar
Last edited by TheFlyingBanana; 10th March 2013 at 22:23.
So clever my foot fell off.
Argentina dismisses this referendum since the voters are all immigrants or the descendants thereof.
Seems a bit strange coming from the Argentine Government which seems to carry a preponderance of German, Spanish & Italian names:
Chief of the Cabinet of Ministers: Juan Manuel Abal Medina
Minister of the Interior: Florencio Randazzo
Minister of Foreign Relations (mostly known as the Chancellor): Héctor Timerman
Minister of Defense: Arturo Puricelli
Minister of Economy: Hernan Lorenzino
Minister of Justice and Human Rights: Julio Alak
Minister of Security: Nilda Garré
Minister of Labor, Employment and Social Security: Carlos Tomada
Minister of Education: Alberto Sileoni
Minister of Science, Technology and Innovative Production: Lino Barañao
Minister of Health: Juan Luis Manzur
Minister of Social Development: Alicia Kirchner
Minister of Federal Planning and Public Utilities: Julio de Vido
Minister of Industry: Débora Giorgi
Minister of Agriculture: Norberto Yahuar
Minister of Tourism: Carlos Enrique Meyer
Incidentally, does anyone know who was there before the French colonised Las Malhouines?.. And how their descendents intend voting?
Mike.
Is The Globe still there, and Deanos :-)
i visited the Falkland Islands a couple of times in the last few years and i loved the place. As mentioned above, it is far more proudly British than Britain seems to be.
Im glad they get to vote and hope the place stays the way it is.
That would be the seals and the penguins - who I doubt care providing they are not turned into pet food.
My understanding is that the islands were first discovered by a Dutch sailor around 1600 and then named the Falkands by Capt Strong in 1690. The French came later, then the Spainsh who acquired the Island from the French. After a couple of attempts at creating settlements - the last one being distroyed by the united states of America, the British established a permanent colony in 1840. So just a mere 173 years ago.
The republic of Argentina was created in 1816.
Interesting stuff.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Haha - yes and the Victory Bar!!!
I've given this considerable thought over the years, and repeatedly come to the same conclusion. The Falkland Islands belong to the Falklanders who live there, and have lived there for many generations. They are the ones who have struggled and braved a harsh environment and made it their home.
As an intellectual exercise I have tried to see it from the Argentine point of view, but I really can't. Their claim has no real substance or validity, based upon highly questionable arguments regarding first claim more than one hundred and seventy years ago. If we were to apply this rationale globally, we would have to resettle almost everyone on the planet. The USA would belong to the Red Indians, Australia to the Aborigines, Iceland to the Scandinavians.... it would go on an on.
The Falkland Islands are some three or four hundred miles off the coast of Argentina - hardly right on their doorstep. Belgium is about the same distance from the UK. Of course they have some strategic significance and possibly now oil wealth - this is the key reason Argentina covets them so much.
Regardless, the islands have been continuously inhabited by the British for nearly two centuries, and the inhabitants wish this to continue. That is their right of self-determination. Argentina really does need to get over this once and for all, and stop using the issue as a smokescreen for all their home-grown failures.
So clever my foot fell off.
ah yes, The Victory bargood times.
Yes, it seems that whenever an Argentine Government is under pressure at home (usually as a result of high unemployment, high inflation, rising costs and lowering standards of living) the Malvinas card is played in a desperate attempt to restore national unity behind the Government.
There can't be any doubt that the Falklanders wish to retain their current status (as did the Gibraltarians many years ago) and even though the Argentinian Government has already refused to accept the outcome of it, by tomorrow night the Falklanders will have sent a clear message to rest of the world that they simply don't want to become part of Argentina. A month or so ago I was chatting to a Falklander who was very forceful on the issue and if his attitude was anything to go by the Argentinians wouldn't get much in the way of co-operation there....
That's how I've always seen it as well.
I don't think you're supposed to say "Red Indians" in these PC times.
But we know what he meant and I expect they are big enough to let it ride.
As a boy I didn't play cowboys and Native Americans...
Cowboys and Amerindians has a certain ring to it.
Yes, this is the problem with the post-colonial world, you can't really unravel the past 500+ years, so self determination is really the only way forward (but not without it's problems e.g. if you're a minority group). If the Falklanders were asking for independence, then that would surely be the same as what Argentina did from Spain, the fact that they wish to remain a BOT is not really any different in principle.
A sneak peek in the ballot boxes shows a surprise result!!!
Mike.
You are probably right.
It's difficult to keep up sometimes. Is "Red Indian" offensive then? Can't really see how. Something to be proud of surely?
So clever my foot fell off.
I believe "Native American" is the preferred term. I'm not sure quite how offensive "Red Indian" is.
What do they actually call themselves?
Do the Washington Redskins have to change their name as well?
And why are the Falklands any sort of special case?
I was looking at the large world map my son has on his wall and spotted St Pierre et Miquelon. Never heard of it before (much like the Falklands in 1981) but is it French or Canadian? I'm not aware the Canadians have made any claim to it but it is a lot closer to Canada than the Falklands are to Argentina.
I don't think they are any kind of special case - as I suggested above there are many comparable situations throughout the world. It is just that Argentina has made a huge deal of this, and uses it as a smokescreen.
So clever my foot fell off.
Obviously, it's time to do some research on this, as it appears to be a subject of some interest. The Oracle [1] says "As of 1995, according to the US Census Bureau, 50% of people who identified as indigenous preferred the term "American Indian," 37% preferred "Native American" and the remainder preferred other terms or had no preference.", so I'm not completely correct either.
It goes on to say:
Obsolete and/or unacceptable terminology
"Redskin"/"Red Indian"
Some Europeans called Native Americans redskins; it was one of the color metaphors for race which colonists and settlers historically used in North America and Europe. It is similar to the expressions "pale face" or "pale skin", which some Native Americans used for Europeans. Such terms are often considered pejorative. Different individuals may hold differing opinions of the term's appropriateness. There is an American football team named the Washington Redskins, and the Redskins serve as the mascot of Red Mesa High School on the Navajo Reservation in Teec Nos Pos, Arizona.[29]
The term's use was not restricted to the United States or North America. The English-speaking world and Europeans, in loan-translations, used redskin and the similar term "red Indian" throughout the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries to refer to indigenous Americans. For example, the French translation peaux-rouges was used by Arthur Rimbaud in Le Bateau ivre and Jean Raspail in several of his travelogues.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_...me_controversy
The Falklands are no more Argentinian than is the Isle of Man and all this is a smokescreen as anyone with a brain cell knows.The referendum will have only one result but my worry is the reaction from South America and their backing for "one their own" and of the back of this the sell out by our special "friends" the USA we have already seen and heard John Kerry on behalf of his Country refusing to back either the UK or the Islanders and lets not forget that paragon of virtue the UN
St Pierre et Miquelon,have been there and its quite strange seeing Gendarmes,Citroens and its just like Brittany but being just of Canada.
Last edited by mart broad; 11th March 2013 at 15:03.
I FEEL LIKE I'M DIAGONALLY PARKED IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE
Short-form name Long-form name Sovereignty American Samoa Territory of
American SamoaUnited States Baker Island (no long-form name) United States Guam Territory of Guam United States Jarvis Island (no long-form name) United States Johnston Atoll (no long-form name) United States Kingman Reef (no long-form name) United States Midway Islands (no long-form name) United States Navassa Island (no long-form name) United States Northern
Mariana IslandsCommonwealth
of the Northern
Mariana IslandsUnited States Palmyra Atoll (no long-form name) United States Puerto Rico Commonwealth
of Puerto RicoUnited States Virgin Islands, U.S. United States
Virgin IslandsUnited States Wake Island (no long-form name) United States
Perhaps Kerry should focus on returning these to there rightful owners.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
* they're
;-)
Dam your eyes
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Hypocrisy, I wonder what the Chagossians would have to say about that, or what nationality they would like to be or where they would like to live for that matter.
Digger
Why do we have a political post (which is not allowed) in G&D?
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
How about a forum for that sort of post could call it the bear pit?
I FEEL LIKE I'M DIAGONALLY PARKED IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE
I suspect that you just went to the top of the list!
* damnDam your eyes
Keep up at the back!
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
They are definitely French. Down to the yellow cars of La Poste. It's actually an overseas collectivity with similar status as a region (i.e. higher status than a departement) on the French mainland. Most regions in France consist of 3 or 4 departments.
The French have such a large number of overseas territories, collectivities and departments that they could be fighting wars incessantly over them if nearby countries behaved like Argentina.
Sorry. It was more an observation of world events as there is no real party political bias to the issue.
Busted
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Yeah - I know - definitely French yet Canada seems to be able to live with it. Maybe the Argies should take a leaf out of their book.
And you* damn
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Not even Saddam Hussain reached this level http://news.sky.com/story/1063363/fa...remain-british
Awesome results but I fear it will only fire up Fraulein Kirchner even more, given the terrible state her country's economy is in.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Before the Europeans arrived they called themselves variations on "people".
There is an ongoing campaign to re-name the team - largely by people who assume other people will find it offensive, but it is interesting to note that very few* Native Americans identify with the term "redskin" or care about its use and therefore simply do not find the word or team's usage of it offensive.
From the point of view of the team and its fans, they do not accept the term as used is a racial epithet but rather it alludes to the bravery and nobility of spirit shown by both the team and by Native Americans... although no-one ever said that in the many years of the team's existence prior to the spectre of racism raising its head ;)
*Though certainly not all, and of those who do they get very irked indeed.
"From the point of view of the team and its fans, they do not accept the term as used is a racial epithet but rather it alludes to the bravery and nobility of spirit shown by both the team and by Native Americans... although no-one ever said that in the many years of the team's existence prior to the spectre of racism raising its head "
Alas so much "racism" is now raised by the do gooders,pc brigade and people in general who have neither an understanding of nor an appreciation of any history and IMO denegrate and trivalise the problems of real racism.
I FEEL LIKE I'M DIAGONALLY PARKED IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE
Who were the three that voted against ???? I bet there is a bit of finger pointing going on by the Benny's
They've just been deported.
Haha - we will never know unfortunately lol
A few Argies / half argies about so who knows!!!
All I say on this erm.. here.. is Oh Yes :)
Fas est ab hoste doceri
Not theirs?
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