Hi,
I'm on the lookout for a toy to play with and having posted various questions in LR/LC/Jeep specific forums, I am no closer on selecting a 4x4.
A bit of a mid-life crisis thing, over Christmas I got to thinking I wanted to buy a 2 seater convertible this year. I’m early 40’s, 2 kids, good job, mortgage, usual stuff and just fancy an addition to my modern eurobox (5 series BMW). My original thought was a £5k Boxster but the only issue is that if I get a 2 seater I know I’ll drive too fast and that’s not where I want to be. So I’ve now had a think about it and think a 4x4 and a bit of green laning/pay and play could be the answer. I’ve always wanted to do it and I think now I’ll get permission from the wife (I know my place)
Anyway, this will be a third car, my wife and I have our own cars, so if it breaks down it isn’t the end of the world. It can sit on the drive until I get round to fixing it. I have basic mechanical knowledge. In my early days of motoring, if my car went wrong I had to fix it as I couldn’t afford the garage fees to fix it for me. I have changed engines, gearboxes, clutches, head gaskets and the like BUT on basic old cars like chevettes, capris, rover SD1’s and the like. No electrics and no fuel injection. It must be said though that I haven’t really done anything on cars for about 15 years. My car is a company car and fully maintained, my wife’s car gets an annual service down the garage and that’s about it. When I have more time I do want to build a kit car so getting my hands dirty again could be good practice for that. (I am already expecting a Land Rover to be a constant mechanical pit!!!!)
I have NEVER welded….
So I have looked at 4x4’s and my list includes:
Favourites:
Discovery 2 Td5 at circa £2k
Land Cruiser Colorado 3.0D at circa £4k
Other potentials
D1 Discovery 300Tdi (£1500?)
Shogun 2.8TD (upto £2k)
Jeep Grand Cherokee (2.7CRD or 4.0 LPG)
As stated above, the car would be used for pay and play, green laning, dog transport, tip duty and car to take camping.
Budget of up to £4k to spend but ideally I'd rather spend only £2k.
My ideal would probably be the Land Cruiser Colorado but that would be 4k and I know I won’t get much…
Of the others, I am open to advice but Disco’s are my favourites. I have asked on another LR forum about a D1/D2 and most recommended a D1 for about £1500. They said they rust like hell but once the rust has been replaced, they are easy to work on. The objection to the D2 was around modern electrics, complications to work on and rusting chassis’s. I know nothing about either model so I am listening to all comments.
One thing I am worried about if I go the LR route (or any car really) is that we have a new block driveway and if it leaks oil onto it, I am in deep do do with the wife!!!
However I much prefer the look of the Disco 2 to any of the other cars on the list but I don't want to spend every weekend fixing the damn thing. Hence the Land Cruiser at twice the price being on the list.
Anyway, any advice on buying a 4x4 much appreciated.
Thanks
Enthusiastic 200tdi Disco owner speaking. Mine is a G-WAC, but they are all the same really. If you find one with no sunroofs you won't have the drippage problem. As my wife says, "it's pouring down outside, but it's only drizzling in the Disco".
Chassis/body is everything with any Disco. Pre-EMS and anti-lock they are like large Meccano kits, and parts are cheap compared to any Jap models.
Buying old 4x4s at those prices you are going to buy a whole heap of trouble and expense.
Unless you can do all your own mechanics, then you still have the parts prices, transmission and gear boxes don't come cheap.
I have owned a 2005 Landcruiser lc4 from new and have swithered about trading it in against something else for the past 3 years but nothing matches up in my eyes, especially after taking vehicles for tests.
It has been serviced on schedule every year and the only thing that went wrong was the air con unit needed replaced a couple of years back. Whatever you buy, make sure it has a decent service history. Can't go much wrong after that.
It's the work that I enjoy. You know it has been done properly, and if you get ripped off it doesn't matter!Originally Posted by BadgerUK
secondhand Disco stuff is available in abundance. I once bought cheaply a 200tdi that had vandal damage - paint stripper poured onto the bonnet. £25 later I had a good s/h bonnet in the right colour.
That is the secret being able to do most things yourself.
I would imagine the Land Rovers and Jeeps are more easily to work on than the Japanese and Korean stuff with parts also being cheaper and more freely availably.
Have you thought about a classic landy? An older defender would be fun to work on and a bit easier, perhaps?
I've held an enduring love affair with 4x4's over the years and owned a comprehensive selection of them.
Series1/Freelander/Discovery/Range Rover's/Shoguns/Subaru's etc, about sixteen of them in total - but none of them ever came close to my Land Cruiser for overall enjoyment and reliability.
Purchased from a forum member with over 100k miles on it (he'd popped down to S. Africa in it ;-) it is now travelling around China with over 200k miles on it and still looks like it'd never ventured further than a supermarket car park.
I'd still have it now if SWMBO hadn't refused to drive it (well actually, to park it).
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
I don't think I'm hardcore enough!!! I've driven all expensed mostly German cars, all under 3 years old for far too long to remember.
Burgh Island!!
Maybe off topic but your concerned about driving too fast in a 2 seater sportscar?
Have you considered an mx5 or mr2?
These cars are seriously fun at slow speed, I can honestly say indulge in mild oversteer fun everyday on my commute yet I don't do anything silly.
I've owned many 4x4's, and for that budget, I would highly recommend the WJ Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.7 V8. They were better built earlier on in the life cycle. I had a 2000 on a "W" and it was bulletproof, comfortable, plenty of toys and superb off-road. MPG is, of course, a nightmare, but LPG solves that. You'd be surprised the turn of speed it can achieve too with 235bhp, although there is a later High Output version with 265bhp.
The later Grand Cherokee's now have a reputation which I know to my cost, but I will always look fondly of the older ones, Austrian built along side Mercedes. Try not to think of it as an American 4x4. Hank and Billy-Bob didn't build these ones, it was the ever efficient Hans and Jürgen...
As you perhaps know, I'm (heavily) involved in running a classic car workshop. And secondly, I'm a great fan of British cars. A large part of the shop's annual income is generated by people who've bought a classic -more or less- Landrover. Parts may be cheap, working on them isn't always easy... Should you be a potential client, I would advise you to buy one, as a member of this forum to another member I say: "walk away!" Maintaining (repairing...) your own Landy is a bridge too far for most first time buyers. And don't be fooled by the low parts prices: you'll need a lot of parts. Often. I know that a lot of the forum members will not agree with me. But when you're busy with 'guerilla tinkering' (=using the spanners in unforseen places at unforseen times), the family will not agree with your idea of a nice day out in the 4x4.
Finally, there's no such thing as a cheap 4x4 without problems. 'cheap' and 'trouble free' don't go together in this situation.
Now, Japanese 4x4s are a whole other story! Ask yourself: when looking at the news at night, why do we only see far and foreign countries filled with Landcruisers? Not because Toyota has set up a nice dealer network in these countries! The only bad thing on a Landcruiser is the radiator. The older design is prone to leaking, due to the way was bolted onto the front apron. More modern LCs have an improved construction and that has overcome the leaking problems as well.
Personally, I would invest in a nice 4 seater classic car. Nothing fancy. A great starter classic is the VW Beetle cabrio (although most of them are LHD), a first gen. VW Golf cabrio etc. And stay away from seducive classics as a Jag MKII etc.!
Menno
I have a Hilux 4x4 which is great for towing (pulled a 62 plate 5 series and an 11 reg e-class out of a ford last sunday hee hee) also great for the tip run,and surprisingly good off road with locker diff and low ratio box.
also in great demand from builders/groundworkers etc when you sell.
above all reliable and does 35mpg.
Goat
No brainer - the Landcruiser.
Then again I am biased. I've had my Colorado for 9 years and it's my daily driver and I'd happily set off for 1000 mile trip tomorrow without any concerns. Parts are not as expensive as you may think and you won't hopefully need them as often. I wouldn't change if for anything at the moment and it's become like a member of the family. The kids won't even let me consider selling it! I'd only consider an "upgrade" to a 100 series but the sheer size puts me off. I find the "90 series" (Colorado/Prado) is just the right size for the UK.
At the £4k price range most 4X4s, even Landcruisers will need a bit of TLC. If you can do most things DIY, you should be able to keep the costs down.
If you are seriously thinking about Landcruisers then there are quite a few forums with some great people willing to share their knowledge and experience.
Good luck!
P.S. That's a lovely 80 Ralphy....so many people are going back to 80s, the prices are rising on a daily basis.
I just picked this one up today but already I'm thinking about a classic project for P&P days.
Cars and watches will have me in the poor house one day.
Not much help I guess but on the subject of reliability, I have just got back from staying with my wife's cousin near Geneva. They let us borrow their 1986 Mitsubishi Pajero to drive to a ski resort about an hour away. Now this thing has 420000 km on the clock and I wouldn't say it was in its first flush of youth, plenty of rattles and clunks and all that, and I think the turbo has long since breathed its last, but otherwise it performed faultlessly and got us up the very icy/snow covered road up to the resort with no bother. My wife's cousin said it's not seen a garage for many years although she thought her husband did occasionally check the oil...
After that my XC60 seemed like a powerful sports car, but nevertheless I enjoyed driving the old tank, and did fleetingly think about the fun that could be had in something like that...
Last edited by SimonH; 18th February 2013 at 00:30.
Discovery 2 for me. Not cheap to run but very endearing. Off road amazing, taken it to the Devils Pit and took everything that was thrown at it. Regularly driven up north to pick up / drop my son at university. I have a choice of cars to drive from day to day and it wins most of the time.
Not as much 4 x 4 experience as some of the others on here but for me it would be Japanese or maybe a Jeep.
The jeeps are good fun and very thirsty on petrol. I once owned a 74 CJ6. RHD rag top 3 speed manual. Ex american postal service apparently. They used right hand drive so they didn't have to get out of the car when delivering. Great when the sun was out. I got wet when it was raining. I also had a 4.0 Cherokee and a 4.0 Grand Cherokee electric leather everything.I Enjoyed all the jeeps but rarely got more than 15mpg .
More recently I've owned a 96 Landcruiser Colorado SWB 3.0D. A great car with a decent boot for a short wheel base. Permanent 4 wheel drive and plenty of power. Mine was a base model so no aircon and more importantly no ABS.
I currently drive a Shogun 3.2D SWB. I've a tuning box fitted so it should be around 200hp. A great looking car with decent performance and reliability.
The only experience Ive had with Landrovers is driving an old series one. I did about 10 miles in it and that was enough for me.
Bouncing all over the road with hardly any seat padding and no performance or brakes to speak of.
For a practical 4x4 for 2-3k I would be on the lookout for a LWB 2.8D Pajero/Shogun. If you can go for a high spec model you will get full leather and aircon.
Most responses are off the track; too sensible.
The LC100 is thé most sensible choice but you don´t want the sendible choice. You are looking to buy a third car, mean to be a bit on the wild side.
Why not something with a rag top and hefty engine.
A 90 V8 or a Korando 3.2 six per example. Something like that. A bit less sensible, a bit more outraguous.
A rag top 4x4 with a bit of go is FUN!
You can even mount a spud gun in the back running off a 12v tire compressor
Have you considered a Jeep wrangler soft top? It may not be ideal for everyday driver but it might offer a combination of sporty car with 4x4 capability. A removable hard top is also available. I had one years ago and really enjoyed it. I'm actually considering another one also. Best of luck
Jim
Oh dear, my had has been turned by a 2 seater......
Maybe not this actual car but one very like it would fulfil to ambitions. I've always loved these cars since I was a oh and I've never owned a V8. I'm bloody fickle....
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classifi...1501?logcode=p
I did say I'm fickle.....Dear goodness. Well, I suppose you could give it a 6" lift and stick some mud terrains on it..
It will develop your spanner & electrical skills.
That's for sure !
Check the BACK of all the fibreglass panels for patching and filler, also look for cracks developing.
Mike
Ironically you're more likely to be wearing wellies driving in that than a 4x4. The footwells fill up with rainwater!
I think you should buy a horse. A white one. Chicks dig horses.
I have a rag top Defender and its awesome, but I'm just about to buy a land cruiser for the family (with the 90 as my second car) - the taliban (and most other terrorist groups and charity agencies based in hostile locations) choose jap and they do so for a reason. Mind you, an older landie will have been sorted from all the production problems......!!!!!
You know, <you're right>. Most especially, fit Irish bridesmaids.
I wish I had bought a G wagen when they were sensible money. Then they became a collectible/fashion item and the prices now are just plain silly. Still though I am fairly happy with my 98 p38 Range Rover diesel with Manual box, does the job and apart from the air suspension occasionally throwing a wobbly has never let me down (in fact I have never failed to get somewhere in the thing after nearly 3 years). Tempted to trade the thing though for a newer RR as they are much more swanky and refined than the p38.
G Wagons are the ultimate off road expedition vehicle, but you have to be willing to pay the ultimate price....
Sounds familiar.
I like the idea of a sports car in principle (I had a Westfield 7 once), but I find the reality too harsh these days. So I have an executive express instead.
The wife has a mini for convenience (she had a number of Discovery's before) and our third vehicle is our workhorse.
It used to be this...
Which was fun (for me anyway, the wife hated it), but I'm no mechanic and the novelly of 'pure' motoring wore off, especially during the winter.
It's now this...
Fits easily within budget, but as a 4.6 v8 drinks a bit of fuel, although probably not as much as the 2.25 Landy did. But we don't do galactic miles in it. And road tax is on the old metric (about £220pa) as pre 2001. It's a lovely comfortable drive (air suspention), sounds great (gotta love a v8) full leather and lots of toys, some of which work !
It's used as the family vehicle when the eldest is back from uni (so five of us), the dog vehicle, the tip run vehicle and more recently the horse vehicle (on the farm, winter lanes, load lugging).
Looks equally presentable when clean as it does when covered in mud (which is pretty much all the time at the moment).
Things do go wrong with Landrovers/RangeRovers, but there's a huge network of spares available and people with knowledge to fix.
I love it and perhaps more importantly, so does the wife.
I got 5.
One stallion.
All ´greys´.
In the south of the former SU, Iran and Egypt they are producing the old Mercedes designed/engined SsangYong Musso and Korando for this same reason.
I have owned for úse quite e fex proper offroad vehicles; half a dozen LandRovers, several japanese ones and an austrian assembled Jeep. We have ´reverted´ to the old Musso and Korando. The prerequisite is that you understand the technology Mercedes used in the W123 generation, which is not a bad thing as that is ever so straightforward. A bit different but sound.
Anyway; as the OT does not need the thing as his daily wheels, just about any ragtop prper 4x4 will do.
In his shoes I would try source a rag top UAZ469 or if he has the garage space a DAF YA126. The latter is thé most capable 1 ton ever. The gearing, portal axles and bearing mounted twin spare wheels make it áwesome in truely rough terrain. The only ´weak´ bit are the stub axles but when one goes this is ALWAYS user induced.
They guzzle petrol but in the Netherlands are for sale converted to LPG already.
My home modded OM662 (Mercedes 2.9td 5 cil.) engined ragtop has the legs of that one and returns 12 km. on the litre.
You might have fun getting that into the supermarket car park !!I've held an enduring love affair with 4x4's over the years and owned a comprehensive selection of them.
Series1/Freelander/Discovery/Range Rover's/Shoguns/Subaru's etc, about sixteen of them in total - but none of them ever came close to my Land Cruiser for overall enjoyment and reliability.
Purchased from a forum member with over 100k miles on it (he'd popped down to S. Africa in it ;-) it is now travelling around China with over 200k miles on it and still looks like it'd never ventured further than a supermarket car park.
I'd still have it now if SWMBO hadn't refused to drive it (well actually, to park it).
R
Get the TVR, it's a proper mid-life crisis car.
Or ( sensible head on ... ) there used to be auto clubs you could rent some pretty decent cars from if you were old, rich and dull enough to qualify for annual paid membership. I'm at least two of those, but now in the wrong country. Seemed cheaper, all told, than a whirlwind quick motoring romance.
As the wealthy say - if it flies, floats or err, fornicates, it's always better to rent than buy
Paul
Have a look at 90 to 203 grand cherokee 4.7 V8. Very capeable 4x4 that out runs sports cars and eats other 4x4s , Comfort , reliable, Every extra,Cheap bits, I get 23 MPG.
Perspective is reality.
It is héavy and although there is no discussing that it is a capable car off road, there is no denying the disadvantages of weight at évery aspect of driving.
The 0 - 100 and 1/4 mile are not thát impressive btw. For such a heavy car yes, but there are faster 4x4s and those are still not a match for anything ´sports´.
Get the TVR, it's a proper mid-life crisis car.
Or ( sensible head on ... ) there used to be auto clubs you could rent some pretty decent cars from if you were old, rich and dull enough to qualify for annual paid membership. I'm at least two of those, but now in the wrong country. Seemed cheaper, all told, than a whirlwind quick motoring romance.
As the wealthy say - if it flies, floats or err, fornicates, it's always better to rent than buy
Paul
I'm going to see one on Saturday. It hasn't been advertised anywhere. It's a car owned by a TVR forum member that saw me asking questions and contacted me direct.
It looks in very good condition but let's see on Saturday. Funny enough, it's white!
Better start thinking about an LCD watch to go with it
My mate briefly owned a TVR Wedge and it was pretty terrible really. It was unreliable, it leaked and it wasn't that great to drive. On the plus side it did sound nice.
I sold a TVR just before Xmas and although it was 25000 miles still had my heart in my mouth, did speak to the customer yesterday who is over the moon with it
I would rather drive a 4x4 I did get offered a 2003 53 Range Rover Vouge done 130k but has done the miles well, just to may miles for me to put in the showroom but good value
for your budget and use have a look at the L200
I owned a v8 disco 300 for about 2 years. On LPG of course. Lots of breaking down, lots of off road, lots of driving on lawns and lots of fun. Not chap motoring, but compared to my other 4x4 experience which was a Nissan extrail there is no comparison. The disco was awesome and il have another one day without a doubt.
Buy a Landrover!
I hardly call 0.to 60 in 6.0 sec, and a 15 sec standing quarter unimpressive, Yes you can spend another 100 grand or so and go Porsche 4X4 etc, But for a couple of grand and a few hundred quid in easy mods as i said nothing much near, Certainly not the boy racer hatch type stuff often quoted, For the ultimate buy a SRT8 hennessy @ 1000 BHP+ and save fifty grand. The proof is fun to see on Youtube for either Jeep.
All is relative.
For such a lump of metal it is impressive. Not so much so in absolute terms.
It simply does not eat all off road 4x4s and is not sports car territory.
Ok, just to update this thread, my weekend toy has now been bought......
Looks the business
But after following Ralphy's rebuild thread, owning one would scare the hell out of me for fear of what lies underneath those shiny panels !
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