Reply With Quoteben
:roll: run for the hills
for a Rolex 14060.
NO
Just returned from a trip to my AD to try out a Submariner, (as I have given up smoking recntly, I have lots of spare cash) and to say I was disappointed would be a understatement.
It felt light weight and flimsy, and did not give me the impression that this was a watch that commanded such a high price tag.
This will obviously upset a few people, but after all the anticipation and excitement when you go to buy a new watch, I was left feeling somewhat aggrieved and deflated.
Sorry to all you Rolex owners, its Just my opinion.
Cheers,
Ben
..... for I have become the Jedi of flippers
" an extravagance is anything you buy that is of no earthly use to your wife "
ben
:roll: run for the hills
Save yourself a grand and buy a nice classic vintage 5513 :wink:
Cheers
Foggy
...or try a recent used Sea-Dweller - solid and purposeful. :)
Just putting on my suit of armour :DOriginally Posted by redmond
Davide
Idealy I would liked to see a seadweller as well, for a side by side comparison, but my dealer does not have one in stock, who does.
Cheers,
Ben
..... for I have become the Jedi of flippers
" an extravagance is anything you buy that is of no earthly use to your wife "
Ben
Was it the bracelet or the watch that felt flimsy?
I ask because, although I am pleased with my Sub, I do feel the strap isn't quite uo to the same build quality, especially the clasp mechanism.
Ralph
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
ben if you put in a search theres plenty of sub v seadweller reviews with pics it will help a little.
theres not that much between them to be honest if your that disapointed with the sub the seadweller wont do it for you :roll:
i am quite taken by the IWC auquatimer (old style) and still have a soft spot for om*** PO :)
theres a decent thread further down with some good ideas LIMES for one
best of luck with the hunt :wink:
Or show you WISdom and junk the bracelet and put it on a substantial nato :twisted:
Interesting observation Ben. When I bought my Breitling I'd actually gone to look at, with a view to buying, a Rolex Air King I'd seen pictures of and found exactly the same. The Rollie just didn't feel 'right'. It looked good in the display, but felt 'cheap' when I picked it up and I knew straight away it wasn't for me. The Breitling which was next to it in the display cabinet on the other hand felt substatial and we bonded instantly. :)
Yes, I know they're vastly different styles, but that wasn't it. The Rollie just seemed overpriced for what it was. Interestingly for me also was that my Zeno Explorer felt at least as good as the Air King did too. :shock:
Guess I'd better ask Crusader if I can borrow a set of his armour. :wink: :lol: :lol:
Best Regards - Peter
I'd hate to be with you when you're on your own.
To be honest Ralph it was the bracelet that let it down :( no where near the quality of a speedy pro and a lot more I could mention, a pressed clasp on a 2.5K watch :evil:
The head itslef was well finished and felt quit solid but the flat crystal and shinny black dial gave it a very blingy look, Not what I want from a tool watch.
Cheers,
Ben
..... for I have become the Jedi of flippers
" an extravagance is anything you buy that is of no earthly use to your wife "
Honestly, I had the exact same reaction the first time I tried on a Sub :lol:
Which is why, if you want a Rolex Sub without the bling, vintage is the way to go. Matt dials, acryllic crystals - lovely :lol:The head itslef was well finished and felt quit solid but the flat crystal and shinny black dial gave it a very blingy look, Not what I want from a tool watch.
Cheers
Foggy
ps you don't need a flame suit for saying a watch isn't for you. Be very boring if we all liked the same.
Peter,Interesting observation Ben. When I bought my Breitling I'd actually gone to look at, with a view to buying, a Rolex Air King I'd seen pictures of and found exactly the same. The Rollie just didn't feel 'right'. It looked good in the display, but felt 'cheap' when I picked it up and I knew straight away it wasn't for me. The Breitling which was next to it in the display cabinet on the other hand felt substatial and we bonded instantly. :)
Yes, I know they're vastly different styles, but that wasn't it. The Rollie just seemed overpriced for what it was. Interestingly for me also was that my Zeno Explorer felt at least as good as the Air King did too. :shock:
Guess I'd better ask Crusader if I can borrow a set of his armour. :wink: :lol: :lol:
Thats my point, the feel of the watch is wrong.
If I was given one as a present (bearing in mind that I have little experience of handling Rolex) I would have thought that it was a copy.
Cheers,
Ben
..... for I have become the Jedi of flippers
" an extravagance is anything you buy that is of no earthly use to your wife "
What I came to discover after finally buying my first Rolex (because I just couldn't 'elp meself despite my initial reaction), is that, for me, they do feel right. Despite the cheap initial feel of the bracelet, I find them to be extraordinarily comfortable and adjustable.
Yeah I think they're probably overpriced, but if I was gonna spend that much money on a watch again, I'd probably buy another Rolex. Makes no sense, but I just trust the quality of the watch for the long term.
Ben
Save yourself at least £2,200 and get a Marcello C Nettuno 3, superb build quality and a fantastic solid bracelet. I bought one recently, off the forum, out of curiousity having read a lot of good reviews, I wasn't dissapointed. Put it this way, I really don't like Mercedes hands or cyclop's, and having bought the watch to see what all the fuss was about, expecting to flip it pretty fast, I now can't bring myself to sell it. It's a real piece of quality and at the price point won't dissapoint.
I say all the above without ever handled a 14060, but a lot of WIS's have had exactly the same experience as yourself and felt distictly underwhelmed when they've gone to their AD and put one on their wrist.
So if you feel the need to buy a classic style divers watch get a Nettuno 3, and then put the money you've saved towards a IWC Aquatimer Automatic 2000 Model: 3538-03, a beautiful watch that's a lot more interesting than your Rolex, and yes they do come without the yellow, but I prefer it with.
As ever this is just my humble opinion, happy hunting :) .
Cheers
Gary
Or, get yourself one of these bad boys! Just picked one up off of fleabay based on recommendation of a good WIS friend :D
Hand winding movement. Chinese copy of Venus 175 he figured, but my friend says his two are running about +9. Paid 90 USD for it. Should be fun :D
Cheers,
Bruce
Y'know, this is the first decent argument I've heard for taking up smoking - so I could give it up and have lots of spare cash!
-- Tim
i've tried 2 rolex on and felt like this :(
one was a seadweller that i'd wanted for ages but never seen.
karl.
I agree with you Ben. :D
Who would pay £2500 for a 14060?
But then again I wouldn't pay any of these silly new prices for watches.
I would probably buy two decent second hand Subs for that :wink: or as Foggy says £1500 for a nice 5513.
Much better bet IMO.
Cheers,
Neil.
Not the 'Rolex bracelet thread' again.... :wink:To be honest Ralph it was the bracelet that let it down :( no where near the quality of a speedy pro and a lot more I could mention, a pressed clasp on a 2.5K watch :evil:
The head itslef was well finished and felt quit solid but the flat crystal and shinny black dial gave it a very blingy look, Not what I want from a tool watch.
Although lots has been written concerning the quality and 'flimsy feel' I've never read of any bracelets failing....correct me if I'm wrong.....and there are quite a few out there!
Ben, I agree with Foggy and David - buy a 5513 or a Seadweller (second hand of course :wink:)
:)
Alan
CricketerNot the 'Rolex bracelet thread' again.... :wink:To be honest Ralph it was the bracelet that let it down :( no where near the quality of a speedy pro and a lot more I could mention, a pressed clasp on a 2.5K watch :evil:
The head itslef was well finished and felt quit solid but the flat crystal and shinny black dial gave it a very blingy look, Not what I want from a tool watch.
Although lots has been written concerning the quality and 'flimsy feel' I've never read of any bracelets failing....correct me if I'm wrong.....and there are quite a few out there!
Ben, I agree with Foggy and David - buy a 5513 or a Seadweller (second hand of course :wink:)
:)
Alan
I can certainly vouch for the robustness of the strap on my Sub (see the 'Rolex bracelet thread!), but I asked the question of Ben as I remember thinking that the folding clasp was the one disappointing thing about my Sub when I first tried it on.
I've got one of Eddies latest NATO's on my Damasko, guess I might give it a try on the Sub!
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Dont worry when i first looked at rolex i was going to buy a sub, and i also thought it felt really cheap and almost felt as if it was a fake!!! i was used to omega divers and the rolex seemed substandard. I went and got a seadweller instead and this is a totally different kettle of fish.. just feels much more substantial and is one of my favourite watches and the only rolex i will ever own.
Does the Dweller have a solid link bracet?
Cheers,
Ben
..... for I have become the Jedi of flippers
" an extravagance is anything you buy that is of no earthly use to your wife "
Had more than my fair share of Rolex's over the years.....
My opinion - FWIW....
Don't have one now......
Wife has a Datejust - loves it.
Me - not anymore.... unless it is a vintage piece - latest saphire bling stuff is crap = even the SD is hanging onto it's heritage. If you really feel the need to have one - never, ever pay retail, go foe s/h and look seriously at 5513 Sub's or 1675 GMT's..
Rgds
Chris
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Hey Ben
Congratulations on giving up smoking, a very difficult achievement but one of the healthiest. I gave up drinking just over three years ago and although it's been hard and it still is, it's worth it. I decided to treat myself much in the same way and I went for a Sea Dweller which feels a lot more substantial than the Sub, and in my opinion it's a lot cooler, try one out and for what it's worth buy pre-owned. I decided to flip it as I have too small a wrist for a divers as an every day watch and so I am searching for a nice GMT.
Good luck with your search and congrats again on giving up the smoking, a total waste of money, time and energy!!!
Cheers
Ben,
Don't worry, you won't be needing the suit of armour! Everyone is entitled to an opinion. It is refreshing that you actually changed your mind when you tried the watch on, rather than buying it anyway because it was what you wanted. Grail watches have difficulty living up to the expectation in my experience. Even Rolex get flipped, so there are probably a large number of 'it isn't quite right but it will grow on me' purchases. And just to make you feel guilty; some wisened old watchmaker slaved over that watch for a whole year just for you to reject his handiwork... :wink:
I tried on a Navitimer a few months back, hoping that it would be too big for my wrist or be in some way lacking in quality. Unfortunately, the bloody thing was lovely and fitted my wrist to a tee. Damn and blast. I was hoping to be able to dismiss it from the top of my wish list but...
At the end of the day whatever watch I choose to buy, it has to fulfill my expectations, and the Submariner failed in this department so the cash stayed in my pocket.
Earlier this year my hankering was for a Speedy pro, and it was everything that I was expecting, so I bought one, actually I was so impressed with it I also bought a vintage one.
Cheers,
Ben
..... for I have become the Jedi of flippers
" an extravagance is anything you buy that is of no earthly use to your wife "
Hi, if you mean solid end links, then the answer is yes. If you mean whether the link in middle is solid the answer is no.. it is the same as the sub.I would maybe take a trip to london and try a seadweler on before taking plunge and agree with others here to go preowned route.. as the rrp of seadweller is £3000 which is a rip off frankly. certainly the seadweller is very stealth and doesnt scream rolex which is one reason i bought it, but also feeles a lot more hefty and what i imagined what a rolex should feel like.Does the Dweller have a solid link bracet?
I am sure that the sub will last a lifetime etc etc and is bomb proof.. but i have heard many people say when they tried it one it felt flimsy and i too was very underwelmed.
Yep, what he said. :wink:
Having owned a couple of 5513's, a 14060M, 16610 and a Seadweller, feel I had to comment! (I'm a terrible watch flipper, not rich :( :lol: )
I personally never had a problem with the bracelets on any of them - no, it's not got solid links, the clasp isn't fancy, but it does the job, looks good and lasts for years, so what's the problem?
I always thought the watches themselves felt bomb-proof, and the cases and dials were very well finished (although some of the edges are 'sharp' it never affected my wearing comfort) - and all felt and looked very similar obviously although the Sea-Dweller was my least favourite, as it seems to sit very high on the wrist in comparison to the others. The 5513's were lovely but I was always worried about getting them wet or bashing them about so I got rid.
HOWEVER, the recent price increases are a joke, a year ago a 14060M was £1970, and a 16610 was £2350, with a Seadweller going for £2400 if memory serves correctly.
A 14060M isn't worth £2500, at under 2k it was a 'budget classic', but not any more!
Actually, having been under the spell of Rolex for 15 years, I now have no real affection for the brand at all - I find the modern ones oddly soul-less. A large Planet Ocean for £1900(ish) would seem better value, and the bracelets are solid affairs with a great clasp (although I had a Seamaster for a few years woith the same clasp, and it was the worst scratch magnet ever)!
Why don?t you go and buy one of those niceSeiko Marine Masters? At least you won?t have people wondering if it is fake or thinking that you have paid well over the odds for a brand name.
I'd have to agree with that, I particularly like Rolex because they are light, strong and lacking in unecessary "heft". In my view thats what engineering quality is all about. BUT, nearly £2500 for an Explorer or a no-date Sub is an incredible rise in price , especially when the supply problems seem to have evapourated.
I would however, disagree with the concept of a "budget" classic. I firmly believe that above £500 you should save to buy the watch you really want and if you are buying retail it should be with an aim to keep it.
I thought £1950 was a lot to pay for my 2004 Explorer but as I intended to keep it for the rest of my life, it works out at a few pounds a week. In those terms, and if you are going down the retail route, you shouldn't buy a "budget" 14060M when you really want a Seadweller. Or a Patek for that matter.
Incidently I passed a Jewellers in Sheffield on Saturday and pointed out my now nearly £3000 GMTII to my 11 year old son.
"You'll have one of those one day boy" I said.
"How's that", he said.
"You'll inherit it when I die" I repiled.
"Cool" came the resonse; I hope he was referring to the watch! :cry:
Why were you worried about getting a diver's watch wet?
Well, they were pretty bashed up with no papers or history, got them cheap and made a little profit - I'd never trust a valuable old watch in water unless it has had new seals and a pressure -test first. They were 20+ years old after all! - I'd hate to mess one of those beauties up!Why were you worried about getting a diver's watch wet?
And very sensible too Rob :)Well, they were pretty bashed up with no papers or history, got them cheap and made a little profit - I'd never trust a valuable old watch in water unless it has had new seals and a pressure -test first. They were 20+ years old after all! - I'd hate to mess one of those beauties up!Why were you worried about getting a diver's watch wet?
Could you explain one thing, Whats this "profit" thing all about. :lol: Its not a word I get to use very often :D
Cheers,
Ben
..... for I have become the Jedi of flippers
" an extravagance is anything you buy that is of no earthly use to your wife "
Well, when I said profit.........having lost £££'s through flipping over the years, I was just trying to make myself feel better! :lol:
I made a couple of hundred quid on each, having flipped 3 rollies in the previous 12 months, which probably lost me a grand in total :shock::roll:
My new plan is only to buy watches I really like, and would find it impossible to replace if I flipped them - well, that's the plan anyway :wink: - mind you I really needed a PRS 18Q like a hole in the head, but it is rather nice, the Italian looks nice, the Dreadnought GMT, I like that Kobold Phantom, .....oh dear!!!!! :twisted:
It's funny - I had a similar reaction when I got to try on a SD for the first time - the clasp felt really cheap and I was disappointed with it. I didn't 'get it.' I expected an expensive watch to be heavy and feel solid everywhere. [an interesting similar example is in top-end hi-fi equipment where consumers assume weight and quality are correlated, so put ridiculously heavy face plates to make their amplifiers weigh more]
Years later my wife bought me a SD as a wedding present. The strange thing with this watch is the more I wear it, the more I like it. It's my most comfortable watch, the thin ('flimsy') clasp works well, it's legible, and I just 'like it'. I'll never flip it for sentimentality-sake (wedding present from my wife), but even if it weren't for that, it would still be one of my favourites.
In fact the only thing I dislike about Rolex, is all the sh*t around the brand, and people getting bent out of shape about it. A bit like BMWs- good cars, but people seem to assume you're a w*nker if you drive one. (I happily drive a VW by the way).
N
Just sat browsing as you do,who would spend nearly £8000 on a 14060,probably a few of those that wouldnt have paid £2500 perhaps!!.
What a thread, this is a gem. ‘Buy yourself a Marcello instead’ and ‘£1500’ 5513s!
You want to see some of the 10 year old CWC threads, Navigators for £200, I’m not paying that, crazy money. It’s really funny reading them.
I do think there are a few on the forum who think a Speedmaster is still £1,500 and a Sub is £2,000 and they just refuse to move forward from that point
If you can get a box and papers 14060 for 8K at the moment then give me a shout for one
Pah 2.5k! I kick myself everyday for selling both my 14060s that I owned at the same time many many many years ago. This thread just makes me cry🥹
A lot of wise words used by wise men....or not!.
Nah dont think so....all just opinions,which we all have.
Are you saying you would or you would not ?
Wow, holy thread resurrection batman.
As it was me who started the thread (how long ago) i have to say things have changed.
Since then I have had about 3 14060, a couple of 16660 and currently have a 16610.
Part from appreciating the watches for what they are (my opinions have changed a lot over the years) its the the prices that now spark all the discussion, not he quality of the watch.
Who will look back in 10 years time at an old quote saying “would i pay £8k for a sub……….no way) and realise that in hindsight it may have been the most sensible purchase.
Last edited by ben4watches; 12th March 2022 at 11:20.
Cheers,
Ben
..... for I have become the Jedi of flippers
" an extravagance is anything you buy that is of no earthly use to your wife "
Comedy Gold.........
I bought a 14060 at around the same time as the original post and, in fairness to the OP, it was light weight, flimsy and also incredibly rattly. Before buying I also looked at the Seamaster of the day and a Tag (Aquaracer I think) and the Rolex was the worst watch of the three by a mile. Still bought it though, and went back for a 14060M after letting it go before finally seeing sense. Rolex have moved on a lot since then but still not enough to interest me.
Im ok i have one..
Good. I’m curious how they are valued.
I can't say I entirely blame them - there is now a vast, unbridgeable gulf between what those watches are worth, and what they actually cost...... I do think there are a few on the forum who think a Speedmaster is still £1,500 and a Sub is £2,000 and they just refuse to move forward from that point
Posting Permissions
