A Patek Philippe Naviquartz marine chronometer from 1975. Never seen one of these before.
Christie's auction: http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/l...jectId=5601201
Last edited by markrlondon; 10th September 2012 at 17:14.
They come up pretty regularly on eBay, nothing very spectacular about them, standard 32Khz quartz heart, but it's amazing to think Patek was at the forefront of Quartz at one point.
Check out that excellent thread on WUS if you're into Quartz MCs -> http://forums.watchuseek.com/f9/show...vt-588815.html
Indeed. How things change. ;-)Originally Posted by webvan
Very interesting, thanks.
It also shows that many ´watch´ brands were also producers of other product lines.
Like Panerai was a manufacturer of navy equipment and álso some watches.
Jaeger was real big in speedometers and rev. counters for motorised vehicles.
Just to name two.
Same thing the electronic quartz side. The qco clock like solid state lcd was not developed for the watch industry but for scientific, military and industrial applications. It was álso further developed for household clocks and wristwatches.
Many ´clock´ manufacturers had (have) other product lines.
A very visible example is the Zlatoust Clock Factory that onece produced the famous russian diver for the military ad also a luxury pocket watch. These were rather unimportant lines in their total output of clocks and timers for just about anything ranging from alarm clocks to timers for washing machines.
When looking at history of high end brands as presented todáy one must rmember that it is very possible, even likely, that before the swiss mechanical became fashionable again, the manufacturer had other product lines too.
In the case of Patek, even qco wrístwatches were an important product line until well into the nineties. Just as for Jaeger LeCoultre, Girard Perregaux, Audemars Piguet, Vacheron Constatin etc.
An information handicap is that the internet became widely used and filled with data áfter the reïvention of the Swiss mecahnical as a luxury watch.
Most luxury brands were acquired by investers of - groups before wis has put historic overviews including the wider picture on the web. The few there are, are wáy down any search results.
To get the most complete info one needs pre nineties books.
Last edited by Huertecilla; 11th September 2012 at 08:36.
True, unfortunately there doesn't appear to be any book dedicated to Quartz Marine Chronometers, although it's been said that this one (in German but with an English translation in the works) "Die Elektrifizierung der Armbanduhr" (http://www.watchprint.com/detail_fr....pID=watchprint) does have quite a bit of info on them.
For quartz watches we have Doensen's book, but that's about it?
Worse still, it is the only extensive book on all of modern horology. It also includes electrics and accutron p.e.
If you want a bit more detailed info on modern watch technology you need to scoop up specialised library books from the seventies/eighties.
Have a search on watch books on Amazon.
It illustrates a serious issue concerning the information of wis-dom.
How can buyers make a balanced informed decision when the information is totally lopsided?
You only need to browse through the Doensen book or surf through the pages of Piotr ´Piglet´ crazywatches.pl site to realise that there is quite a bit of VERY interesting horology behind the 90% or so of watches sold today; to realise what interesting heritage Swiss marketing is covering up under a thick blanket of mechanical desireability.
This sort of thing is a problem in many fields, I suspect. Increasingly, if it was pre-Internet, it didn't happen.
The sooner that more and more books and paper-based records in libraries (public and private) are digitised and put online in indexable form, the better for history in general. A lot of old information will probably never be digitised or go online. This is worrying -- will people remember to search for offline paper records, will people even know how to seach for such records, when online network access to all (or so people think) information is transparent, instant and ubiquitous.
You put your finger accurately on the core issue.
´Or so people think´ is thé big pitfall.
When one thinks the info is complete, or is otherwise satisfied with what is easily available, one doesn´t look any further.
That is exactly what is the root of the unquestioning main stream of wis-dom.
I do not understand why per example the Doensen book is largely ignored by wis-dom while is a must as a base for any opinion on watches beyond simple líke.
It is not that the price is a problem as it is peanuts compaired to what buyers write off stepping out of the AD.
I líke a mechanical movement very much more than anything modern because I can séé it working, but that doesn´t make me want to remain oblivious to the by far most fruitfull, productive and usefull side of horology!
If I would allow such contra-productive negative emotion I can get real angry about how difficult it is to get in depth info on modern horology.
Instead I see it as a mental challenge and find is gratifying to find a publication on temperature compensation or a collection of the written out lectures of a symposium by living memory about the early days of quartz development in german watchmakers.
The stories from the early days of LED watches in the US are só gripping. Far more so than an the marketing of the successful third attempt to get a Rolex down with a sub. without leaking.
It is a great pity that no history has yet been written on Roger Riehl of Synchronar. It is a remakable tale and a ditto remarkable watch. Líke or not, the thing is far more worth collecting, owning than many highly valued swiss mechanical collectables.
Why has the book not been written? Because there is no marketing interest and unquestioning main stream wis-dom is thus not interested, thus no publisher will see an opportuniy to sell sufficient books.
The Doensen book too is a fruit of the pérsonal drive of Mr.Doensen agianst the stream of wis-dom.
an unexpected example of a different product line of a high end watchmaker:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rare-Swiss...item2321ee6da4
That is certainly surprising!
As surprises go you may be surprised to learn that Patek set up their dedicated quartz/electronics research department in 1948.
They made the world´s first electronic quartz clock.
All for products not strapped to the wrist.
They were quite big in electronic time pieces; bigger than in mechanical wristwatches for several decades and you can stíll specify exquisitely made quartz modules in a watch if you so wish:
http://www.patekphilippe.com/content...3_250_S_C.html
I quite fancy a jumbo Aquanaut and despite me líking mechanicals more, would have it with a quartz engine because of it´s heritage and superior functionality as an instrument to measure and display time.
From the Patek site:
1959
First solid-state quartz watch with no moving parts (335612)
High precision horological instrument.
This high precision timepiece loses less than 1/10 of a second over a 24-hour period. It is characterized by the fact that it consists of a quartz thermo-compensated oscillator with a frequency of more than 500 cycles per second.
It also has an electronic frequency dividing device presenting, on the one hand, two parallel chains of division stages, and on the other hand, a mixing device for the two exit frequencies and the filtration of their low beat frequency. This low frequency controls an hour indication device.
Last edited by Huertecilla; 12th September 2012 at 08:16.
That's interesting, nice to see that Patek not try to hide their quartz history.
By the way, I just realized that most of the text of Doensen's book was available online : http://doensen.home.xs4all.nl/
I can't wait for that "Die Elektrifizierung der Armbanduhr " book to become available in English.
Yes it is good to see they are justly proud when the market is so prejudiced.
The book still is VERY worthwhile to buy as the e-files are less than half the info and only a fráction of the illustration. The book is simply a steal and a must for every wis who doesn´t want to just follow the mechanical marketing info but likes to form an informed opinion.
Yes, the german book is an informative read indeed.
There is só much more info, from an often totally different perspective, especially in French and German. I count myself fortunate to be able to read that.
Here's a link that features the Synchronar and (be warned possibly NSFW) a nice lady modelling some other watches.
http://www.soluhr.com/35years.htm
Last edited by MrLion; 12th September 2012 at 11:14.
Doesn't look like the link made it?
Oh you've read it? Apparently it's one of the only books that deals with QMC's (unlike the Whitney and Cronin books on MC's). Someone on WUS mentioned an English translation was in the works so I waiting for that. What French books do you have in mind when it comes to quartz?
Since we're on the topic of QMC's, I popped in at the Science Museum in London this summer and took a few pictures of the quartz chronometers on display in the "Time" Gallery, a very interesting display of instruments. A Patek Philippe/Kelvin Hugues QMC had already mentioned I believe, a tiny Longines QC and a Patek Philippe master clock :
Last edited by webvan; 12th September 2012 at 10:54.
http://www.soluhr.com/35years.htm
Link now up
The Trueb, Ramm, Wenzig book does deal with QCM too. It is a very recent publication and I have not read it áll yet.
In french the bulk is in articles about Lipp in old magazines. There is very little written about their national watchmakers.
If you master german the book you realy want is: http://www.deutsches-uhrenmuseum.de/...t&id=236&cat=2
The museum has the Treub book too so you can save on shipping.
Last edited by Huertecilla; 12th September 2012 at 11:25.
Here's another Patek from the Vienna Uhren Museum
In the Sotadic Zone, apparently.
Thank you in particular for that one.
Another interesting Patek.
http://www2.ppauctions.com/lot.php?l...2&thisPage=101
I checked and the two ´books´ (one is 2 bands) will cost you 88 euros only for a wéalth of info, the bulk of which you will not find anywhere else.
Even if you have difficulty with the language the illustrations alone are imo worth the money.
Pateks don´t come cheaper than that.
If you are handy with electronics, that rack can be changed into several PP desk top clocks and a cool watch cabinet.
A business opportunity for a currently ´self employed´ forum member perhaps?
Give me a discount for the idea and we´ll talk about me taking one desk clock.
Sounds like a cool project, sign me up for a desk clock too!
Thanks for the link to that other book, I'll try to get an ETA on the English version of the Trueb, Ramm, Wenzig book and if it's not getting close I'll just get both from the museum. What do you mean by "two bands" vs "book" ?
It´s not a book but a collection of lectures in a spiral. Although indepandant, it is the second band.
This is the contents:
· Carlene E. Stephens: Reinventing Accuracy. The First Quartz Clock of 1927
· Horst Hassler: Adolph Scheibe und Udo Adelsberger. Physiker und Uhrenbauer aus Deutschland
· Eduard C. Saluz: Quarzuhren und Präzisionszeitmessung in England und Frankreich zwischen 1930 und 1950.
· Michael Schuldes: Erste tragbare, batteriebetriebene Quarzuhr der Firma Patek Philippe
· Johannes Graf: Herausforderung Quarzuhr. Die deutsche Uhrenindustrie in den 1970er Jahren
· Reinhard Jäckle: Zur Entwicklungsgeschichte der Quarz-Großuhr in St. Georgen im Schwarzwald in den Jahren 1970-1990.
· Friedrich Assmus: Die Entwicklung der Quarzuhren der Firma Junghans GmbH
· Manfred Schwer: Quarzuhren bei Hanhart …und dann wieder zurück zu den Wurzeln.
· Artur Kamp: Quarzuhren aus dem Thüringer Uhrenzentrum
· Gerd Hermle: Entwicklung und Produktion von Quarzwerken und Quarzuhren aus der Sicht einer Herstellerfirma
· Günter Hahlganß: Die Quarzuhr bei VDO
· Lucien F. Trueb: Der achtfache Weg zur Quarzarmbanduhr
· Alfred Leiter: Der Weg zur ersten deutschen Quarzarmbanduhr
Thanks for posting the contents, a good opportunity to brush up on my German it seems! And you say these lectures have pictures too, like the Trueb, Ramm, Wenzig book?
I didn't know Lipp had a magazine, there was a guy selling some old French watch magazines from the 60s and 70s a few weeks ago in a forum but that wasn't it and now the title escapes me.
Yes 176 illustrations of which several scematics but still plenty of photos.
No, Lipp did not have a magazine. They were featured in ´Montres´. How surprising can a name be :-)
At the time quartz was hot stuff, higher than haute.
Patek, JLC, GP, IWC, Omega, Rolex etc. were drwaing attention to thát effort.
Magazines did not shun the undeniably huge advancements in time keeping technology in favour of Swiss luxury mechanical advertorials as that had not been invented yet.
That is a húge difference.
Maybe US based members can do a search through ´Popular Science´ magazine contents as that mag. published quite a few articles on new watch technology too.
Here you can find (scroll a bit up) the JLC/GP cal. 352 used in exploded view to explain the quartz watch.
http://www.popsci.com/archive-viewer...rd%20perregaux
Interesting to note is that in 1972 the GP quartz line stárted!! at 250$ which was in the region of the Rolex Daytona at the time.
Last edited by Huertecilla; 12th September 2012 at 16:59.
Thanks for the link, nice articles but a bit hard to read with that viewer, I wonder tif they can be downloaded.
"Montres" it is then, ok, that's probably what the guy was selling. I'll ping him to see if he can locate articles on quartz.
I am a very simple end user and am thwarted at printing just the article pages.
It was simply a link to illustrate that the info ís out there. Popular Science is a véry ´popular´ example.
In the Netherlands there was a similar, rather better quality, magazine called ´KIJK´and that had compairable articles. AFAIK there is however no index of archived contents available other than in the back of every last year issue.
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