Chealwatch - "The Butcher of Rye"

[MST]

Thanks all for the advice - i have gotten some pm's too with good advice.

"RaulGonzalez" has offered to service and repair the watch and he is based near to me - might i ask if any of you are able to recommend ?

If i ever win the lottery (hohohoho) i shall do some serious investing in watches, but for now i just have the TAG ( which in all honesty i had forgotten about until i redicovered it recently .... ) and a Breil which is cheap, but looks nice.

When those 6 numbers come up it will be a Zenith or an IWC..... or likely both !!

Keep us posted.

[KavKav]

Chris used to be great but sadly not so nowadays.

The last time I used him was about 10 years ago, I sent him a vintage IWC for a full dial restoration(sorry purists, the dial WAS awful!) The watch came back and the restoration was appalling, I sent it back to him with 'words of advice', I eventually got it back and I was happy with it even though it took a long time and was expensive (not grumbling about the cost) After that episode, with the trust bubble broken, I never used him again.

After that, I was fortunate to discover a brilliant watch repair guy who does a first-class job at reasonable prices and I unhesitatingly recommend him! The guy is Rocco Manfredi of 'Watchworks' in Bristol. The last job he did for me was a full service and refurb on a vintage 1942 Omega that had lain in a drawer in a relatives house for about 30 years, the watch came back gorgeous and relative was delighted with it!

[Ventura]

I think you are right he used to be good when looking at all the old posts etc of people recommending him. I think when the hand fell off my Omega it was a one off at the time and probably a trainee did it as he did rectify it. Seems maybe his age is catching up with him when trying to do such a delicate job.

[huytonman]

He claims to be a FBHI, I havnt looked but it would be normal for an institutiuon like that to take an interest in amy members who are turning out shoddy work as it reflects badly on them - as I dont have any personal experience of using him I would suggest that one (or more than one) of you have have get in touch with the BHI and point them at this thread and your own experiences.
Keith

[Michael_Mcr]

Having done much internet research to find someone who can service and refurbish i decided to have a (gentle) go at refurbishing this watch myself as I have an extensive and high quality micro-toolkit (from servicing high-end photo-imaging systems in a previous line of work – now its just server systems which aren’t as delicate) and have successfully carried out delicate camera repairs in the past.

...Please don’t shout at me – if i have to subsequently hand someone a pile of TAG Heuer bits then will just take it on the chin and pay more to have it fixed. :)

I have obtained a Jaxa type case back remover and watch case holder. I successfully removed the bracelet using a micro-pick without scratching anything and luckily the missing bracelet end has turned up in the same drawer i found the watch in . The 3 prong case back remover worked well, tho i was VERY careful as the potential for a slip and scratch seemed large. The case back came off easily considering it hasn’t been removed in at least 5 years and there is no evidence of corrosion or water ingress inside other than the condensation under the dial.

Parts I need are a new battery ( type 395), a new sealing o-ring ( which appears to be 33mm ) and a 22mm bracelet spring pin to replace the one that got bent all those years ago. Where i am struggling is finding information on how to remove the movement marked 955114 which the internet tells me is an ETA Quartz movement common to TAG Heuers from the mid 1990’s. I can see how it’s held into the case by two small screws but can’t find any info on removing the crown and stem to allow the movement out of the case – there is no evidence of a detent type button for this purpose.

Can anyone point me in the right direction ? ( or shout STOP !!! if that is appropriate and sage advise :) )

Thank You

[CLOCKMAN]

The little silver arrow points to the release pip. Press this down gently and pull the stem out.

[markrlondon]

Parts I need are a new battery ( type 395), a new sealing o-ring ( which appears to be 33mm ) and a 22mm bracelet spring pin to replace the one that got bent all those years ago.

You probably know this but decent parts like these can be obtained from Cousins UK (amongst others).

can’t find any info on removing the crown and stem to allow the movement out of the case – there is no evidence of a detent type button for this purpose.

Disclaimer: I am not an expert and I don't know anything about this movement other than what I can see in the pic.

That said, I can see what appears to be a small lever on the edge of the movement at roughty the 10:30 position. Does this swivel when the crown is pulled out?

Also I can see a small metal 'button' or protrusion a couple of millimetres into the dial with an arrow (made from an extension of one of the electrical tracks) pointing to it. If not stem release then it might be a reset contact for the movement.

Could either of these be the stem release?

Please don't blame me if the movement self destructs after touching either of these. ;-)


**edit**
Answered above, I see.

[Michael_Mcr]

UPDATE: thanks for the advice all.

MARKRLONDON - thank you for that - i will try Cousins UK. The tools that i have came from MKCLOCKS on Amazon and they arrived next day and seem of decent quality, with the proviso that the price i paid would likely indicate China as country of origin but they all seem to be fit for purpose.

There is a little slop in the Jaxa type case removal tool, but i sized it to fit and then carefully taped the adjustment wheels so that left me free to press down firmly to avoid slippage and scratching.

CLOCKMAN - Cheers ! - the little arrow etched into the circuit board does indeed point to a detent button which allows for release of the stem. It came out easily and allowed me to remove the movement which is contained in a plastic basket. After cleaning the glass and refitting, the stem came out again (yikes) but it just took a firm push home while the detent button was depressed and i felt it engage the mechanism the second time and the time and date adjustment functions work again as intended.

So i am quite cheered by this first watch stripdown. I could just put a battery back in and fit new case seal , but should i ( can i ?) replace any smaller seals like in the stem entry point ?

I am not a Diver btw - swimming pool job so it only needs to be watertight to about 5 meters :)

Hopefully a new battery will make it spring into life again.

[Neil.C]

So i am quite cheered by this first watch stripdown. I could just put a battery back in and fit new case seal , but should i ( can i ?) replace any smaller seals like in the stem entry point ?

There will be an seal inside the crown but AFAIK you cannot replace these just the whole crown.

Put some silicon grease sparingly around your new caseback seal as this will stop you possibly graunching up the seal when you wind the caseback on again.

[Michael_Mcr]

Do you think that i need to go the whole way and replace bezel, crystal and crown gaskets as well as caseback ? Is the bezel and crystal gasket / seal replacement difficult ?

As i said before i dont intend going diving, but would prefer to do the job thoroughly and properley if i can. Am less bothered about the pressure test as i know i will service it diligently once i have the neccesary parts so that i can guarentee it will be properley waterproof, all be it perhaps not down to 200 metres.

I cant find anywhere to source genuine TAG so will just have to measure them and buy good quality replacements i guess. The Case back seal is 33mm x 1mm.

[Neil.C]

I have no experience with your particular model, the crystal may be glued in.

I'd try and find an exploded diagram and service sheet if I were you.

[pugster]

This thread seems to have been
hijacked and turned into a watch refinish post :)

[2kilo]

the OP could build a web page stating his experience, mine below for Jurgen's seems to appear 4th on a "google.co.uk" or "google.com" search... not that he seems to care but it gives me some satisfaction...

[Michael_Mcr]

This thread seems to have been
hijacked and turned into a watch refinish post :)

I know, mea culpa. It started out as an attempt to find a technician, but whilst trawling the web i discovered that the TAG 1000 / 1500 / 2000 series appeared to be "relatively" simple devices and became compelled to see how far i could get myself without butchering it.

I am aware that i have side-tracked this thread and would be grateful if the admins could split it and move it to a more appropriate forum?

I certainly intend to accurately document the process for others to follow when finished. To date i haven't found any evidence of data sheets or service manuals being easily available for these watches as that was my starting point.

Thanks again all for your help - i have really enjoyed working on this watch and am determined to complete the task to a high standars if at all possible.

[jegger]

Micheal you would be best to start your own thread, the forum is run by one man, so easier for you just to start a new thread.

[Blackhawk]

Back on the subject, I too have stopped using Mr Heal. It is a shame because he has done some great work for me in the past, with refurbishments, servicing and battery changes. However the last service was on my PRS-5 and it wasn't great.

[SlimJim16v]

I wish I'd seen this earlier. I think it needs a bump.

i recently bought a watch via a WTB on here. A bit of a grail and quite hard to get. I patiently waited for the seller to get it back from being serviced, at Cheal.
The big day came and I had a huge smile. Admiring it as you do, I noticed the large main seconds hand for the chrono function was slightly off zero. After discovering another hand for the chrono didn't reset on the first press, I contacted the seller. He offered a full refund, or to return it to be put right under the guarantee, which we did.

i patiently awaited it's return to my wrist and on it's return, checked the alignment of the offending hand. It still wasn't perfect, but liveable. Then the horrific realisation that the hand had been moved closer to zero by bending the end slightly I also noticed the power reserve varies between 5 and 15 hours on It's return. I contacted the seller again, who once again offered a full refund, or paying for it's repair.

That was when I searched for "cheal" on here. Too late, but with believable results, as per this and another thread. I told the seller there was no way on Earth it was going back to this butcher and I was going to arrange for to go to Duncan of Genesis, to get it checked over and reserviced, with the seller agreeing to bear some cost.

This has obviously taken much of the pleasure away, as well as having additional cost for us both, I will however know it will be perfect on it's return from Duncan.

[walkerwek1958]

A tale of woe, no doubt about it.

Ironically, I had a useful conversation with Mr Heal about a watch he'd worked on that ended up in my hands. I found him very helpful and willing to give me advice, even though it was a job where the customer hadn`t been happy. He told me exactly what had been done with the watch and I found this useful. He also gave me a very good tip for removing bezels on some models. However, it seems the work being produced isn`t as it should be.

There seems to be a trend in watch repairing for people to reach an excellent standard but be unable to sustain it long-term. Possibly in this case it's age-related....I don` know the guy but he's been around for many years.

I`m still at the stage where I won`t compromise on any work I do and I definitely don`t rush things. However, I don`t make a living from it and I can afford to take this approach. There is a temptation to take short-cuts and I can see how it happens. In many cases it's down to workload and rushing, but that's no excuse.

Clearly, there's a trap to be fallen into and it's one I intend to avoid. If I start doing sloppy work I know it's time to call it a day and do something else. It's the same with many skills/trades; if your heart isn't in it your work standard falls.

Paul

[SlimJim16v]

Paul, you are on my recommended list, although you have a 3 month waiting list like Duncan

With the Oris I have away at their guy (it's up the road from me), it doesn't leave any money to get my TAGs looked at. Maybe I should flip those other two that never get worn

[adigra]

As recorded before, one of the worst cases of customer service I've ever come across. It's interesting to note that the large caseback scratch is Chris' trademark as my watch came back with one too. The rudeness on the phone by both him and his wife cannot be overstated. He hung up on me because I asked to be refunded the money for bracelet cleaning which they didn't do because they couldn't figure out how to remove it from the case (the excuse I was given by the wife after he refused to speak to me further). Even though they charged me a set fee for the cleaning, when I requested the refund Chris asked me how much I thought that should be... It was like some bizarre pantomime. He also offered the refund under the condition I remove my negative post from TZ-UK, which I refused to do. It just goes on...

[mwurliinkomeg]

I am a relative newbies and didn't register with TZ-UK until after I had my watch serviced at Chealwatch before Christmas so was not aware of this thread.

It was an Omega Constellation (1968) and it looked like a new watch to me when it was returned to me.

It also appears to be working fine and keeps very good time. So naturally I was pleased.

There was an issue with the winding crown and stem pulling right out of the watch when setting the time which I did not mention to Chealwatch and thought that this may have been put right during the service.

However the same fault is still there after the service. Should a service put such a fault right or would it incur an extra charge?

Obviously, I can only go by the outward appearance of the watch but should I have the watch checked out again to see waht's been done on the inside?

I also have an Omega Seamaster Quartz dress watch which has the same winding crown problem. Does anyone know if this was a well known occurrence with Omegas in the 1960s and 1970s?

I have leaned a lot by reading this thread - but they say ignorance is bliss.

[Omegamanic]

I am a relative newbies and didn't register with TZ-UK until after I had my watch serviced at Chealwatch before Christmas so was not aware of this thread.

It was an Omega Constellation (1968) and it looked like a new watch to me when it was returned to me.

It also appears to be working fine and keeps very good time. So naturally I was pleased.

There was an issue with the winding crown and stem pulling right out of the watch when setting the time which I did not mention to Chealwatch and thought that this may have been put right during the service.

However the same fault is still there after the service. Should a service put such a fault right or would it incur an extra charge?

Obviously, I can only go by the outward appearance of the watch but should I have the watch checked out again to see waht's been done on the inside?

I also have an Omega Seamaster Quartz dress watch which has the same winding crown problem. Does anyone know if this was a well known occurrence with Omegas in the 1960s and 1970s?

I have leaned a lot by reading this thread - but they say ignorance is bliss.

I would expect someone working on one of my watches to notice this. Plus I'd like them to point it out to me and advise of the price to fix, or state that they can't fix it for whatever reason.

[dickbrowne]

There was an issue with the winding crown and stem pulling right out of the watch when setting the time which I did not mention to Chealwatch and thought that this may have been put right during the service.

However the same fault is still there after the service. Should a service put such a fault right or would it incur an extra charge?

One of the things that a service will require is for the movement to be removed, to do this, the stem is removed. After the service the movement is replaced and the stem re-inserted. If there's a problem at that point the watchmaker should inform you, if it was noted before the service he should inform you before the service and the cost of rectification may increase the cost of the service. I would never send a watch back after service with this sort of issue, and could never claim to have not noticed - I always check the timing of my watches on a timegrapher, then set the time and run them for a period of hours (at least 24, usually closer to 40) to check power reserve and accuracy over the life of a wind. This means that I would always be aware of a stem removal issue. If your watch was returned with this fault it suggests it wasn't serviced correctly.

Back to the OP's point, the thing that I'm struggling with is that the watch was sent to have a loose rotor re-attached. If this was the only work required, the movement wouldn't have needed to be decased, and there is no way that any marks would get onto the dial. Is there some black-art to rotor-fixing of which I am unaware? The mind boggles.

[mwurliinkomeg]

Omegamanic and dickbrowne - thank you for that excellent advice - seems like it might be wise to get it checked out again.

[Seamaster73]

He also offered the refund under the condition I remove my negative post from TZ-UK

That's pretty shabby.

[redmonaco]

He 'gave it a service at the same time '

One of the things that a service will require is for the movement to be removed, to do this, the stem is removed. After the service the movement is replaced and the stem re-inserted. If there's a problem at that point the watchmaker should inform you, if it was noted before the service he should inform you before the service and the cost of rectification may increase the cost of the service. I would never send a watch back after service with this sort of issue, and could never claim to have not noticed - I always check the timing of my watches on a timegrapher, then set the time and run them for a period of hours (at least 24, usually closer to 40) to check power reserve and accuracy over the life of a wind. This means that I would always be aware of a stem removal issue. If your watch was returned with this fault it suggests it wasn't serviced correctly.

Back to the OP's point, the thing that I'm struggling with is that the watch was sent to have a loose rotor re-attached. If this was the only work required, the movement wouldn't have needed to be decased, and there is no way that any marks would get onto the dial. Is there some black-art to rotor-fixing of which I am unaware? The mind boggles.

[pugster]

''If your watch was returned with this fault it suggests it wasn't serviced correctly.''

.....or it was never removed from the case in the first place so he did not see the problem anyway (i.e you paid for a service that was never even done)

[Joe.K]

What I don't understand is why people are so reticent to pop in and have a chat with the culprit. If somebody messes me about I will go out of my way to visit them and air my grievances in person. I can't imagine how upset I would be if my watch came back from service with a smear on the dial but I'm sure it would warrant a 'road trip'...
cheers
Joe

[Dr_Niss]

I am so lucky, I sent him a watch a while back and he said he could not service it as the o ring had liquified.
It was returned unharmed, fortunately as it was inherited from my father.
Ryte Time sorted it for me.

[hilly10]

Good old Steve

[oldstock]

a few of mine, i sent a couple of 7002s to be checked out, recieved them back and immediatly put them on the sc, one sold and away it went, the new owner recieved it only for the movement to be loose inside the case, i changed watch guys, well after getting a few back ok i took an elgin railroad pw and an elgin military ww, he said that the balance staff could not be scourced, 10 days later i gave him one which i got on ebay us, after sis weeks i got the ww back, the following morning i discovered that it gained 20min in 8 hours, i returned it, three months passed and no sign of a watch, so some day next week i have to load my mobility chair head for the guy, i wil collect them repaired or not, oh the joys of watch enjoyment, i have some more but our host may suggest i am taking up too much bandwith.

[Mr.D]

a few of mine, i sent a couple of 7002s to be checked out, recieved them back and immediatly put them on the sc, one sold and away it went, the new owner recieved it only for the movement to be loose inside the case, i changed watch guys, well after getting a few back ok i took an elgin railroad pw and an elgin military ww, he said that the balance staff could not be scourced, 10 days later i gave him one which i got on ebay us, after sis weeks i got the ww back, the following morning i discovered that it gained 20min in 8 hours, i returned it, three months passed and no sign of a watch, so some day next week i have to load my mobility chair head for the guy, i wil collect them repaired or not, oh the joys of watch enjoyment, i have some more but our host may suggest i am taking up too much bandwith.

That's terrible.

Just FYI I am in the process of making official complaints about the work I recieved from Chealwatch. Depending on how that goes small claims court and trading standards will be my next routes in the coming weeks.

Find it really shameful the complete disregard for customer satisfaction let alone the sentimental attachment for the watches this company exhibits.

[Artistmike]

I'm another that was caught by him quite a few years ago, luckily it wasn't an expensive watch and I chalked it up to experience. What amazes me is that after all these years he's still at it, apparently with impunity. He must have ruined a lot of watches over the years.. ....

[SlimJim16v]

I have just paid a bill of £620 to have my Zenith serviced again and having the bent hand put right. About £200 of this was getting a few other things changed while it was in. None of this would have happened if the watch was properly serviced in the first place and has soured the whole experience for me and I have considered flipping it several times.

While being serviced, a lever from the chronograph was found to have had the end filed off. Now I can think of only 3 reasons for it -
1. It was missed during the service.
2. It was a bodge carried out during the service.
3. It wasn't serviced at all.

Here is a photo of the lever, next to the new replacement.

[Thewatchbloke]

I feel your pain. After he'd butchered my speedy resulting in a £430 bill I had to sell it 'cos it never felt the same.

[Mr.D]

I am currently talking with the BHI regarding Chealwatch; this will be the last mediation process I will attempt before I take court action.
I have already informed the BHI that there is considerable negative customer experience from Chealwatch in addition to my own.

If people would like to contact the relevant people at the BHI with their own complaints I can supply their emails; however I will not post them on an open forum.

[Mr.D]

I am finding the BHI to be of little use in this situation. Lots of lame excuses. This isn't much of a surprise to me , it strikes me as a fairly inept outdated organisation anyway.

No worries I was merely exploring all channels of reasonable address before bringing the court case against Chealwatch. This will be a piece of cake , not my first time in a court room (albeit not a crown court which I'm most familiar with).

Quite looking forwards to it. Will keep updating and thank you to everyone who has contacted me regarding their own stories of inadequate service from Chealwatch.

I may well contact the local press in Rye and point them towards some of the many reports on the net about "the butcher" in the meantime.

They can also ask the BHI why they seem unconcerned about a "Fellow" of their organisation being outed multiple times for inadequate work and disinterest in customer care.

[Cirrus]

The BHI's lack of interest is most disappointing...

[Omegamanic]

Very disappointing that BHI haven't taken the matter seriously, and it unfortunately reflects on how the Institute is viewed by others - surely they would want to protect their position and the members that provide good/exceptional service?

[RJM25R]

Very disappointing that BHI haven't taken the matter seriously, and it unfortunately reflects on how the Institute is viewed by others - surely they would want to protect their position and the members that provide good/exceptional service?

The bhi pipe smoking tweed wearers won't give a hoot. As long as c heal keeps paying his membership, what do they care if a few whipper-snappers get theirnew-fangled jewellery ruined? Get the plough mans lunches in, and the real ale and talk about beards!!!

[walkerwek1958]

I don`t think the BHI can be expected to police the standards of work produced by members. If someone passes their exams and achieves a qualification, that's as far as it goes. If they subsequently (many years later in this case) start producing dubious work, the BHI can`t be expected to intervene. However, on an informal basis, it would help all parties if they could 'have a word'.

I`ve already given comments on this thread in the past. I fully sympathise with anyone who's been charged for work that wasn`t good, but I also have some sympathy for Chris Heal, although it sounds like he's not helping himself. No-one sets out to do shoddy work, there has to be some underlying reason for this. In the odd case where a job goes badly, surely it makes sense to put things right and be honest with the customer? Above all else, you have to be honest with yourself and accept that things aren`t right.

In the age of the internet, bad news travels fast; it's more important than ever to maintain a good reputation, particularly if your livelihood depends on your business being successful. The old adage 'the customer's always right' is more true than ever thesedays; the customer's always right even if you disagree with him, it's sensible to do everything possible to keep customers happy and address complaints constructively.....even if you decide you won`t deal with that customer again. That's the bit I can`t understand with this guy; when customers aren`t happy he doesn`t seem to do the right things.

Paul

[walkerwek1958]

The bhi pipe smoking tweed wearers won't give a hoot. As long as c heal keeps paying his membership, what do they care if a few whipper-snappers get theirnew-fangled jewellery ruined? Get the plough mans lunches in, and the real ale and talk about beards!!!

Very amusing.......but have you ever met or had personal dealings with any BHI people? I think it's unfair to disparage people like this if you haven`t. Generally I have a good sense of humour but it fails me when I read crap like this.

I met several of the BHI people whilst training there in 2010 and they certainly didn`t fit the image you're trying to portray. As I`ve already stated, it's unreasonable to expect the BHI to police the work standards of members.

Without the help of the BHI and the training they provide, I wouldn`t be working on watches. Yes, they charge hefty fees for the courses but I`ll always be grateful for the help I received. However, I don`t expect the BHI to take responsibility for the standard of work I produce, or anyone else.

Paul

[Cirrus]

I don`t think the BHI can be expected to police the standards of work produced by members.

They could stop giving him and his butchery their tacit approval by removing him from their list of their BHI Registered Repairers though.

[Dave+63]

Whilst I know of his reputation and I haven't had any dealings with him personally, I've recently had three discussions about him which were all positive.

The first two are people I know who have had their watches serviced by him and have no complaints.

The other is a watch dealer who has been using him for years (at much reduced prices) and had had only one or two issues which were satisfactorily sorted out.

I'm not saying he's great and personally I wouldn't risk it but for balance, it appears he's not all bad.

[Omegamanic]

They could stop giving him and his butchery their tacit approval by removing him from their list of their BHI Registered Repairers though.

Absobloodylutely they could and should!

If I was carrying on in my industry in the same manner I would have my Fellowship removed, it is not an absolute right, I am representing an organisation! if the organisation does not take its members and their actions, or transgressions seriously - how can it be expected to be taken seriously?!

[RJM25R]

Very amusing.......but have you ever met or had personal dealings with any BHI people? I think it's unfair to disparage people like this if you haven`t. Generally I have a good sense of humour but it fails me when I read crap like this.

I met several of the BHI people whilst training there in 2010 and they certainly didn`t fit the image you're trying to portray. As I`ve already stated, it's unreasonable to expect the BHI to police the work standards of members.

Paul

I've not met them, no. That's just my opinion garnered through the apathy and disrespect I received when I reported a different bhi member after receiving promises that weren't kept an a watch back in worse condition than it was sent in, who then cut communication. My comment was about the association, not anyone personally however to say I'm talking crap is very personal Paul.

My humorous "real ale/beard" comment was in indication of what I see as dancing while Rome burns. It may well be that the BHI are working behind the scenes to irradiate rogue members or such like, but it doesn't seem that way!

Using BHI membership as a tool to gain business would mean to me that they SHOULD police their members to a certain extent. Chealwatch are notorious, there are many threads on the net about them.

[Mr.D]

it's unreasonable to expect the BHI to police the work standards of members.
However, I don`t expect the BHI to take responsibility for the standard of work I produce, or anyone else.

Paul

Yes I completely agree . To be honest the only reason I approached the BHI was because of their concilliation service and the fact that Chris advertises himself as a fellow. This was after having approached Chris myself. This was essentially my last reasonable route of offering Mr. Heal a more benign opportunity to rectify this situation according his own concious.

This was after having been very patient and respectful and reasonable in all my dealings with him over email and phone... giving him without argument or criticism a second chance to rectify the problem (even the best of people make mistakes once in a while) on a watch which didn't even have the problem before it was sent to him. In parrallel he also failed to service another watch of mine he had at the same time and which he kept for months under the guise of servicing more rigorously and which I also volunteered that I was happy to pay over his standard service rates to have back in good running condition ( bear in mind the watch was running when sent to him so its not as if it was a traincrash to start with) .

To be fair he didn't charge me for the attempted work on that watch which I eventually had to request to be returned but I'd rather have paid for a succesful result than waste that time.

After that final straw and all the easy to find other reports of unsuccessful experience from other customers there was no way that I would return the watch a third time. Once bitten , twice shy , third time a halfwit.

Chris' response is complete denial of responsability , facile and unreasonable arguments of burden of proof down to the nth degree and empty accussations that I dropped the watch some time after he returned it. In other words a complete and utter disregard for maintaining any sort of reputation for good customer service and no consideration of wasting my personal time over a venture involving sums of money that I consider to be trivial compared to the aggravation he has caused me.

Of course the flip side of this is that the levels of compensation involved are the least of my priorities. I am more than happy to drag Mr Heal through the courts very publically whether or not I am ultimately refunded ; if it prevents even one more well intentioned customer falling victim to his shabby services.

The sad thing in all this is that I am a very reasonable customer with everyone I do business with . I appreciate and happily pay above normal rates for good service that is not going to take up my own time in extricating myself from some underperformers petty minded incompetence.

I would personally be mortified at even the thought of responding to my own clients in the way Chris has ; regardless of how unreasonable they may be. As an example I have current clients who have brought court actions against organisations I have represented and who have faced me across a court room. Sometimes they have won sometimes I have won ( I am usually first to apologise and admit any culpability if there is the merest suggestion that any work executed under my direct responsability is less than perfect). These people ALL still my clients and are held by myself in the highest regard and from all evidence over the interveninyears vice versa.

Good business conduct , gentlemanly behaviour and a sense of honour would be topics the BHI should maybe offer some courses in if Mr. Heal is representative of the average "Fellow" attaining their accreditation.

[TheFlyingBanana]

I do usually give people plenty of time to make amends, and I am probably more reasonable than I should be sometimes...

However, I also get to a point where I will take decisive and sustained action if I have been wronged. I will not "roll over", and this refusal to be shafted cost my business (in a previous life) a huge amount of money and time in the high-court before I was satisfied.

The evidence of Mr Heal's attitude and approach to customers is all over the web and watch forums. It is not a one-off mistake. He has had his chance many times and he has abused many honest people's trust.

Do 'im Mr D. It is well overdue.

[Mr.D]

I do usually give people plenty of time to make amends, and I am probably more reasonable than I should be sometimes...

However, I also get to a point where I will take decisive and sustained action if I have been wronged. I will not "roll over", and this refusal to be shafted cost my business (in a previous life) a huge amount of money and time in the high-court before I was satisfied.

The evidence of Mr Heal's attitude and approach to customers is all over the web and watch forums. It is not a one-off mistake. He has had his chance many times and he has abused many honest people's trust.

Do 'im Mr D. It is well overdue.

Thank you , your support and sentiments are much appreciated.

However I have no desire nor will recieve any great satisfaction from inflicting aggravation (warranted or otherwise) upon any persons including Mr. Heal. I have sailed through much more vengeful storms than this tiny squall.

My preferred situation would have been if Chris has carried out the work to an acceptable standard in the first place.
Next would have been him endeavoring to honestly rectify any inadequacy in his service.
Next would have been not being put into this situation by his continuing unreasonable conduct and refusal to engage honourably in this matter.

I would hate for one more person to have to experience the nonsense I have with Mr. Heal's company and if that is the only positive outcome of this situation then so be it.

[walkerwek1958]

I've not met them, no. That's just my opinion garnered through the apathy and disrespect I received when I reported a different bhi member after receiving promises that weren't kept an a watch back in worse condition than it was sent in, who then cut communication. My comment was about the association, not anyone personally however to say I'm talking crap is very personal Paul.

My humorous "real ale/beard" comment was in indication of what I see as dancing while Rome burns. It may well be that the BHI are working behind the scenes to irradiate rogue members or such like, but it doesn't seem that way!

Using BHI membership as a tool to gain business would mean to me that they SHOULD police their members to a certain extent. Chealwatch are notorious, there are many threads on the net about them.

OK, if you've had some dealings with them and found them wanting (apathetic and disrespectful), maybe you have got grounds to criticise them and there is a basis for your comments. Your post just came across as a cheap shot against the BHI, but it sounds like you're criticism is justified. I`ll retract the comment that you were 'talking crap', maybe my defence of the BHI isn`t completely justified after all.

Clearly, they could play a helpful role by getting involved in these disputes, but I suspect they don`t have the resources to do so. It also sounds like they're reluctant to get involved and it's possible they don`t want to upset members and lose numbers. Ideally, a word in Mr Cheal's ear would've helped, but it sounds unlikely that he'll take notice.

Just had a look at Mr Cheal's website and it's certainly impressive. Just shows how misleading a website can be!

Personally, I enjoy working on watches but I don`t envy anyone who's doing it for a living. The only way to make a good income is to work quickly, with a high throughput of watches. This isn`t easy; I don`t think most people realise how much work is involved in servicing a watch, and it doesn`t lend itself to a slapdash approach. The temptation is to cut corners, and that's what some people end up doing. I`ve talked to repairers and I know some of the tricks they resort to in order to get work out quickly. There are people in the business who can turn work over very quickly and do it to a high standard, but they are a rarity. When it comes to vintage watches, you can almost guarantee that something will be wrong with the watch; it's very rare for them to simply need a a standard service. Damaged parts, wrong parts fitted, parts missing.....I`ve seen this on almost every vintage watch I`ve touched, and the last 2 (both Omegas) have been no exception. Sorting problems out takes time, tracking down replacement parts takes time, and time is money......that's where the temptation to bodge things comes in.

I sympathise with the customers who've been messed about big-style, but it's a sad situation when someone has to be dragged through the courts over poor workmanship.

Paul