Reply With QuoteI'm sure they made Steve Austin bionic for less that that!
Received a call from a friend who's just returned from visiting relatives in the USA. Whilst he was there he was rushed into hospital when he developed a stuck gallstone and pancreatitis.
He's just received the bill for the first 8 days in intensive care - US$86,000 :shock: and he's waiting for the bill for the next 7 days in a regular bed. I hope his travel insurance will pick this up!
Is this typical of healthcare costs in the USA?
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
I'm sure they made Steve Austin bionic for less that that!
I'm not sure that there is a typical cost. The US is a big place, and costs vary. The average, I think, for ICU is about 4,000 USDs per day. It will be higher in New York than in St Louis.
Best wishes,
Bob
:shock:
Wow, I hope his travel insurance is comprehensive!
Dave E
Skating away on the thin ice of a new day
Yes................NHS whingers please note!!!!!! :wink:
I wont be filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, I am not a number, I am a free man, my life is my own!!!
Be seeing you
Toodle pip
Griff.
Welcome to the fucked up world of health care here in the US of A. Now you know why we are all broke and can't afford to buy a PRS-18. :x
How much would a visitor from the US be charged for similar treatment in the UK?
Best wishes,
Bob
Interesting, And I would wager that if an American citizen had the same treatment as Eddies friend the bill would not be as big.Originally Posted by rfrazier
Cheers,
Ben.
Cheers,
Ben
..... for I have become the Jedi of flippers
" an extravagance is anything you buy that is of no earthly use to your wife "
My guess is that ICU would be about £2-3000 (3-6000 USDs) a night. I think that the charge for a non-ICU bed in a London hospital is about £500 (700-1000 USDs) a night. The information isn't readily available, however. Here is a link to a page where one can get a spreadsheet giving the tariffs for various procedures. It isn't apparent how one should work things out, but maybe someone on the forum can enlighten us.Interesting, And I would wager that if an American citizen had the same treatment as Eddies friend the bill would not be as big.
Cheers,
Ben.
Best wishes,
Bob
From what I am aware of, for example, students from the USA int he UK do not pay, but I shall have to verify this.
If it is A and E it is effectively free, for ostensibly they do not stop you in the stretcher and enquire if you have insurance. the follow-up rate, if there is payement due will be a part of the equation at the payment end of the matter.
See this from a UK Uni. web-site:
The UK has a subsidised health service called the National Health Service or NHS. The NHS provides free and subsidized treatment for people who are residents in the UK. As an international student you are entitled to free NHS treatment if you are in any one of the following categories:
You are enrolled in a UK institution for six months or more.
You are a national or resident of an EU (European Union) country.
If you are not entitled to NHS treatment then you will be asked to pay the full cost of any treatment given (cost is equitable to cost of medical treatment in the US) even for emergency treatment. As this can be very expensive, you are advised to take out a medical insurance policy before you leave the US.
See this for intra-EU treatment:
http://www.medical-journals.com/r03285.htm
Pottinger :)
He was in New York. Back home now for gall bladder removal on the NHS.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
A lot of the costs are to pay for those who can't/don't and also to milk the insurance companies. Much of it is a sort of legal scam. ;-)
Don't forget drugs and tests these add up quickly. My Mother In Law before she passed away about 10 years ago had to get 2 shots a day by a licensed nurse each shot cost $110.00 USD for the medication and around $50.00 USD for the visiting nurse. She finally refused any more shots when she realised we were running out of money paying for her as she only had Medicade and it didn't cover this drug. She passed away shortly there after. She was terminal so it was just prolonging a very painful life.
In the US hospitals make deals with insurance companies. In order to get on a large insurers approved list they agree to give discounts to the insured and the insurer. My wife was in the hospital for about a week and we received a bill for around $50,000. When we got the final insurance information it showed the hospital had discounted the bill to around $20,000 and insurance had payed for everything over $1,000.
If you have no insurance say goodby to 50K. In most cases if you have no insurance you will be shuttled off to a hospital run by a university such as County USC in LA County or UCI Medical Center (University of Calif. Irvine) in Orange County. No one can be turned down at an emergency room of any hospital for treatment even without insurance.
On a slightly different subject my favorite BBC shows have tought me that in Britain when you are ill you are "in hospital" rather than "in the hospital" as we say over here.
According to this site:
http://www.dh.gov.uk/PublicationsAnd...221&chk=TxHkqo
A 12 day stay for major bladder surgery will cost on average about £3,600 in the UK.
I always think it telling that in the UK you never hear of someone pursuing a career as a "medical billing specialist".
The Pharmaceutical industry is, according to US Government statistics, the most profitable in the US. The most common cause of personal bankruptcy in the US is health care bills.
The US spends twice the percentage of GDP on healthcare that the UK does, yet has worse general health and life expectancy. Say what you like about the NHS, you're living longer and healthier while paying half what we do in the US.
Kevin
One of the offices where I work, an advisor has brought his mother from abroad for medical treatment in the UK.
He has been told that it will cost between £10k and £60k, and he must pay a deposit of £50k in advance
As someone who travels to and from the USA a few times in a year,a word of advice INSURANCE in fact travel insurance whenever you travel.
I buy for myself and my wife 10 million quids worth of insurance,any trip up to 62 days for £170.00 per annum,that also includes the usual delay's,money etc.
My wife has been hospitalized once in the US and we have used Doctors services a couple of times the insurance covered it.
I have always felt that any non UK person who arrives in the UK should pay for any and all medical treatment unless there are reciprocal arrangments as in the EU.
Just my opinion
Martin
I FEEL LIKE I'M DIAGONALLY PARKED IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE
Private healthcare costs in UK are also expensive and NHS treatments can be prolonged with long waiting lists and long waits between appointments .... and NHS treatments can also be second-rate. I'm experiencing considerable delays trying to get a kidney stone problem sorted via NHS which would cost ££megga to have treated privately .. and just spent £3200 on private dental treatment which in effect 'revised' all the poor quality NHS treatment in recent years ... problem is it is so difficult to obtain cost effective healthcare insurance when have to declare existing conditions. Now regretting all the unnecessary sugar and cigarettes consumed over many years ... even though I gave up smoking years ago the habit's legacy has continued to compromise my teeth.
Now practicing preventative care to minimise future health problems ... and losing weight after cutting out all unnecessary sugar.
Dunk
"Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"
A friend of mine's just had a kidney stone problem sorted in Bangkok. Cost him £2100 in total.
I live in the USA and from my experience this how I see this problem;
If you have good insurance you are all set except for your co-pays which are capped @ a maximum out of pocket per year (the cap amounts vary depending on the policy)...if you've seen the invoice statements from your insurance company, which are a bit cryptic, they often show that your insurance carrier gets a huge discount. You might see something billed from the Hospitol @ $5000.00 but the insurance company only pays say $1000.00 maybe even less to settle. It's all based on some super secret negotiations between the hospital and the insurance co.
Now if you have no insurance or your insurance does not cover the whole tab the Hospital will bill you there normal amount.
I can't speak for all Hospitals but I have heard that in the case of inadequete insurance the Hospital will accept what ever your insurance company will pay.
If you have no insurance at all some hospitals will accept much less than their initial bill to you. You just need to speak up and work with them.
As far as the state of the overall health of Americans I don't think our standing is a direct result of the quality of medical care. It's probably directly related to the obesity rate in the US.
Very sound advice Martin. :wink:
Welcome to the wonderful world of NHS finance - my job for the last 20 years.
Overseas visitors are indeed chargeable, although there are some reciprocal arrangments in place with some countries. A US tourist would be charged, even for A&E treatment.
Here's a PDF on the subject matter. Section 8.4 onwards contains the pertinent points.
http://www.dh.gov.uk/assetRoot/04/10/60/24/04106024.pdf
As for what the charge would be - well, that depends on where you are seen. The Trust must make a charge that covers the costs of the treatment (including Trust overheads). This is naturally going to be cheaper than a Private Patient bill, although there is no reason why an overseas visitor cannot elect to be treated privately for the appropriate rate.
The DOH links that have been shown in this thread concerning Payment by Results. What do they mean ? Basically, these are the results of an annual mandatory exercise where each Trust has to analyse their costs and activity for the previous year to come up with average costs. As there can be many thousands of individual prcedures performed, it is impractical to cost every single one. Therefore, procedures are grouped in to HRG's (Healthcare Resource Groups), the idea being that the procedures within a single HRG are similar and thus consume similar resource levels. The end of the exercise is that Trusts can be compared on their costs by the analysis of HRG's. Each Trust is given a score, 100 being the average cost. A Trust with an overall score of below 100 is therefore seen to be financially efficient. However, it's never that simple and I could go on for ever about the inadequacies of the system :twisted:
In very simplistic terms, the Governments plan was to have a National Tariff for each HRG pitched at the 100 mark (ie the national average cost). Every hospital would be paid the same rate per procedure, with some adjustments made for Market Forces Factors in different areas of the country. This has been slowly rolled out over a number of years, although large elements of activity are still paid at locally agreed comissioned rates. In an ideal world, Payment by Results seems a good idea, but in reality it is complex and sadly unaffordable IMHO.
Well, that was interesting wasn't it :shock: :?
Cheers
Foggy
Foggy,
Can you give a ball park figure? :lol:
Martin
I FEEL LIKE I'M DIAGONALLY PARKED IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE
MartinCan you give a ball park figure?
I've run out of fag packet backs. Send me 20 JPS and I'll see what I can do :lol:
Cheers
Foggy
After spending six months in hospital after my accident I was shocked to discover that it had to be paid for and the bill was £50k the maximum that can be charged I was informed (Ian is that correct) if so god knows what it would have been :roll:
Paul. :)
ps I did not have to pay direct line had that honor :D as it was not my fault.
Hi PaulAfter spending six months in hospital after my accident I was shocked to discover that it had to be paid for and the bill was £50k the maximum that can be charged I was informed (Ian is that correct) if so god knows what it would have been
Paul.
ps I did not have to pay direct line had that honor as it was not my fault.
It's part of the Road Traffic Act. Current max is £37,100. You wouldn't have had to pay even if it had been your fault - this is always picked up by the insurance companies.
Cheers
Foggy
Thanks Ian so some one at direct line was telling porkys now there is a surprise :wink: mind you I did have to pay the CRU £44K for everything that was claimed in injury benefit and disability benefit to me in the five years after the acident and that did hurt. :cry:
Paul. :D
No, it's not typical. Nor is a week in the ICU typical for cholecystitis - you're friend must have been very sick, I hope he's doing better.
I realize Griff thinks the NHS is the best thing since swan neck regulators, but no system is perfect. Every health care system has three essential characteristics, and no system can maximize all three simultaneously. Those three characteristics are: access, quality and cost. As a result, each system must make it's compromises in one area or another. How those compromises align with your own priorities, needs and desires in a health care system determines how happy you will be with it.
For the record, I work in a system very much like the NHS and I'm happy with it. Of course, I know the ins and outs of the DoD health care system and can evade the access hurdles and judge the quality for myself. :wink: The vast weight of my experience with health care in the US (both civilian and military) is that an NHS-type system would not work in the US.
No, it's not typical. Nor is a week in the ICU typical for cholecystitis - you're friend must have been very sick, I hope he's doing better.
I realize Griff thinks the NHS is the best thing since swan neck regulators, but no system is perfect. Every health care system has three essential characteristics, and no system can maximize all three simultaneously. Those three characteristics are: access, quality and cost. As a result, each system must make it's compromises in one area or another. How those compromises align with your own priorities, needs and desires in a health care system determines how happy you will be with it.
For the record, I work in a system very much like the NHS and I'm happy with it. Of course, I know the ins and outs of the DoD health care system and can evade the access hurdles and judge the quality for myself. :wink: The vast weight of my experience with health care in the US (both civilian and military) is that an NHS-type system would not work in the US.
Doesn't work in UK either .The waiting lists are scandalous across the UK ..It's run by well paid cock up artists .Well, excluding my wife actually .I though I'd be well advised to add that ,just in case she reads this .
What the fuck is a swan neck regulator!!??? :D :lol:No, it's not typical. Nor is a week in the ICU typical for cholecystitis - you're friend must have been very sick, I hope he's doing better.
I realize Griff thinks the NHS is the best thing since swan neck regulators, but no system is perfect. Every health care system has three essential characteristics, and no system can maximize all three simultaneously. Those three characteristics are: access, quality and cost. As a result, each system must make it's compromises in one area or another. How those compromises align with your own priorities, needs and desires in a health care system determines how happy you will be with it.
For the record, I work in a system very much like the NHS and I'm happy with it. Of course, I know the ins and outs of the DoD health care system and can evade the access hurdles and judge the quality for myself. :wink: The vast weight of my experience with health care in the US (both civilian and military) is that an NHS-type system would not work in the US.
I wont be filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, I am not a number, I am a free man, my life is my own!!!
Be seeing you
Toodle pip
Griff.
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