Steinhart v Christopher Ward Q

[Scrubnut]

I have been doing lots of research into my next watch and had decided on a Steinhart....but I've just discovered CW and read a lot of good things. I'm not after a diver, probably a pilot style watch so its a choice between a CW C8 and probably a Steinhart Jubiläumsuhr JG 74 limited ed. I think the ETA 2824-2 movement may be slightly superior to the Sellita SW200-1 although this is arguable as they seem to be interchangeable?

Anyway, I'm sure folks here have either or both of these so any experiences would be welcome. They both seem excellent pieces for the money so any opinions very welcome!

Thanks

Chris

[downer]

I don't have that particular Steinhart, but I do have a Nav-B Chrono, which is essentially the same case (although it may be a bit deeper with the 7750 movement in it), and I also have a couple of C8's.

The big difference is in the size of the case. On paper, they are similar, but in real life, they are quite different...



Quality-wise, I'd say they are on a par, although the CW 5 year movement warranty is a bonus.

Movement-wise, there is nothing to choose between them.

After that, it comes down to the design, which is a matter of personal taste...

[Aquavit]

I'm generally a fan of Steinhart watches, but in this instance I'd be put off by the logo on the dial.

Would have much preferred the usual "Steinhart" script and maybe discrete "JG74" lettering, to my eyes it looks a touch gimmicky.

On the other hand I'm not so keen on the white date window on the CW.

Never straightforward is it :?

[Dapper]

I'd choose the C8.........



.......to cheer up the sad duck at 12 :mrgreen:

[Scrubnut]

I'd choose the C8.........



.......to cheer up the sad duck at 12 :mrgreen:

I like everything about that watch....been looking at it for a few weeks now. It's this 5 yr warranty on the CW...and as I'm a bit sad...he writes you a personal letter. All that stuff I'm a sucker for!

[Geralt]

Something about Chr. Ward - I've never been able to 'get' them. Don't know what it is, but I can't see myself spending my hard earned on one.

OTOH, I do have a Steinhart Ocean One Vintage Red that I'd rate as superb VFM. 300m WR, solid case back, sapphire, AR coated on the underside, nice big crown, wobble free bezel, lovely hands (ie not skinny) and what's more it's within +2s/day. Couldn't recommend more highly.

If you decide on the Steinhart, try Neil at Chronomaster first!

[Barney12]

Definitely the C8. I have a friend with one and its lovely (like all CW's!)

Barney

[Rev-O]

How about one of Eddie's?

That'd be my choice any day.

[ktmog6uk]

i'm a bit steinhart fan but i do like the Christopher Ward C8, i used to have the limited edition pvd multi lumed version and it was an excellent watch. in addition, think about Archimede, Kemmner and if you fancy a smaller Flieger out hosts Speedbird iii is a fantastic watch, i love mine!

[Scrubnut]

i'm a bit steinhart fan but i do like the Christopher Ward C8, i used to have the limited edition pvd multi lumed version and it was an excellent watch. in addition, think about Archimede, Kemmner and if you fancy a smaller Flieger out hosts Speedbird iii is a fantastic watch, i love mine!

Thanks for this info.

The irony is that I have arrived on the scene too late for the Eddie's that I really like, all my favourites sold out long ago. I can keep my eye on SC though and I'm sure there will be new models along in time.

I'm now struggling along investigating Kemmner (seems everything is in German!), and Archimede who it appears feel via Jura (which I've always found expensive)...there are some nice examples of both though. I suppose I'm trying to get as close to my ideal as possible here: Ideally this would be leather strap easy to change, not massive, either pierced lugs or an easy release system, be nice to have a viewing window, small seconds and date. Doesn't need to be too waterproof but does need to have the best movement I can find for about £400.

This is like dating! :laughing1:

PS Doesn't need GSOH or cooking skills but does need to make me smile.

[ktmog6uk]

this is Roland Kemmners ebay site :wink:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/erkahund/m.html

[doug darter]

The C8 is a good looker, no doubt, but the dial is a little to fussy, ie the circular built up date window which is polished, and the built up nature of the lookee likee IWC triangle and dots 12 cardinal, which is also 3D and polished.

IWC made the same mistake with their 'Spitfire' models, which used 3D polished cardinal and numbers. For me it destroyed the tool watch image that the earlier pilots models had, which also, at least to me, exudeded 'cool' and quality.

[bonzo697]

I'd go for the Steinhart - Christopher Ward are too much of a Sunday Express magazine brand for me.

[amh82]

I've not seen the Steinhart, but I do have a CW C8 MkII Vintage, and imo it is a very, very nice watch for the money.

ETA movement rather than the cheaper (although almost identical) Sellita, nice bead blasted finish, sits well on the wrist, nice qaulity strap & deployment. Also little things like the presentation box, polishing cloth, not a deal breaker but nice all the same.

Seeing the profile of the CW vs Steinhart I'd go with the CW. It's a large watch, yet due to being relatvely slim, sits well even on my skinny wirst. Be warned that the strap is pretty large though, I had to punch another hole, although it's a parallel strap until it flares out just at the lugs, so plenty of room for an extra hole.

Things I'm not so keen on are the round polished date window and the new logo, but neither are anywhere enough to detract from the watch for me. Really happy with mine, I really should get some pics up!!

I find it funny that they are considered a magazine brand - proven ETA movements, well built, sapphire, nice strap, 5 year warranty - do you often see that from a 'fashion' brand??

[swanbourne]

To be fair, they're not exactly targeting the same markets, are they?

Eddie

[146edward]

:P :P

I'd go for the Steinhart - Christopher Ward are too much of a Sunday Express magazine brand for me.

[Scrubnut]

I'd go for the Steinhart - Christopher Ward are too much of a Sunday Express magazine brand for me.

Yes...that is a big negative against CW in my book.

[amh82]

To be fair, they're not exactly targeting the same markets, are they?

Eddie

How many markets are there for a 44mm, ETA 2824 powered pilot's watch?? The fact that the OP is considering either, and that they are both very similarly styled & priced, puts them both in the same market for me.

Depends if your 'market' is swayed that much by what is written on the dial I guess :shock:

[swanbourne]

To be fair, they're not exactly targeting the same markets, are they?

Eddie

How many markets are there for a 44mm, ETA 2824 powered pilot's watch?? The fact that the OP is considering either, and that they are both very similarly styled & priced, puts them both in the same market for me.

Depends if your 'market' is swayed that much by what is written on the dial I guess :shock:

I said they weren't targeting the same markets because the two brands have different followers, in much the same way as a Mercedes driver probably wouldn't consider a Lexus. It's nothing to do with price or specification.

Eddie

[Scrubnut]

in much the same way as a Mercedes driver probably wouldn't consider a Lexus.

Eddie

Indeed. I'm not Alan Partridge.

Ah-haaaaaaa!

:thumbup:

[amh82]

I said they weren't targeting the same markets because the two brands have different followers, in much the same way as a Mercedes driver probably wouldn't consider a Lexus. It's nothing to do with price or specification.

Eddie

I can see what you're saying.

Maybe I'm different in the sense that I'll get an itch for either a particular watch, or maybe just a particular style, and then will look at what's available for the spec & price I want to pay. After that I probably don't get too swayed by brand recognition, more so components & build quality.

I'm much the same with cars actually ;)

[imb1]

I don't consider them a fashion brand at all. They make nice quality Swiss Made watches (316 steel cases, sapphire crystal, Swiss movement, nice leather straps) and sell them at a decent price with a great guarantee. What's not to like about that? You may not like a particular design but that is everyone's prerogative.

[simoscribbler]

I think it's great that there are so many small businesses - our host's included - making products for the likes of us. I happen to like several of Eddie's a lot, and own a Steinhart (nice thing), but don't go for CW much - for some irrational reason I hate round date windows with a passion and won't wear a ND watch - but who cares what I think?

I have personal experience of Steinhart's thoughtful service, and remember reading nice things about CW's on here a while back, so I'd go for whichever you fancy.

[5freddys]

Both are wonderful watches for the money. Not sure about the service and warranty on the Steinhart but you cannot beat what you get in those departments from CW for the money.

[Laser Sag]

Well I can't comment on the Steinhart but having 3 CW's I can heartly recommend them the quality is excellent for the price point and their customer service is above and beyond, only ever used when I have messed up but have provided replacement items rapidly and in one instance FOC. Wether you like their designs, round date window etc is all personal preference but I will have more of their watches just need to decide which ones. As for the designer label part from earlier in the thread I think that is a bit harsh on a small British company who only those that like watches will probably have heard of. They offer not only a five year warranty but a 60 day return policy so I would suggest buy it, try it and if you dont like it send it back.

[Ryeguy]

Both are wonderful watches for the money. Not sure about the service and warranty on the Steinhart but you cannot beat what you get in those departments from CW for the money.

I own 2 Steinharts - the Vintage GMT and the BlackSea - and can tell you from personnal experience Anna in their services department is top notch.

The biggest mistake Steinhart owners do when they need service is send an e-mail to the "info@" address which seems to be monitored less frequently than one would like (especially one with a watch issue looking for support!).

Anna's e-mail address is on Steinhart's website under their warranty section (unfortunately in German, but easy enough to find it) and she's very responsive. When my Vintage GMT needed to be sent in, she even sent me Steinhart's FED-EX account number so there was no cost to ship the watch back from the US to Germany.

[Scrubnut]

this is Roland Kemmners ebay site :wink:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/erkahund/m.html

Well, all is not well.

I emailed him yesterday about 3 of the watches for sale. Haven't heard back, but the 3 watches mysteriously disappeared during the night and are now nowhere to be found!

It's a shame, but I'll give this until tomorrow then kick this idea to the kerb and look elsewhere. Disappointing.

[ktmog6uk]

this is Roland Kemmners ebay site :wink:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/erkahund/m.html

Well, all is not well.

I emailed him yesterday about 3 of the watches for sale. Haven't heard back, but the 3 watches mysteriously disappeared during the night and are now nowhere to be found!

It's a shame, but I'll give this until tomorrow then kick this idea to the kerb and look elsewhere. Disappointing.

maybe he forgot to delete a running advert from his ebay shop. he could've emailed though...

[Scrubnut]

this is Roland Kemmners ebay site :wink:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/erkahund/m.html

Well, all is not well.

I emailed him yesterday about 3 of the watches for sale. Haven't heard back, but the 3 watches mysteriously disappeared during the night and are now nowhere to be found!

It's a shame, but I'll give this until tomorrow then kick this idea to the kerb and look elsewhere. Disappointing.

maybe he forgot to delete a running advert from his ebay shop. he could've emailed though...

Maybe....but I'd rather be told to get lost than nothing at all....and he's obviously got my mail. Steinhart I suppose then.

[Barney12]

:P :P

I'd go for the Steinhart - Christopher Ward are too much of a Sunday Express magazine brand for me.

I'm not sure what you mean by that reference? Do they advertise in the glossy mags?

(sorry I don't read a paper! :) )

Barney

[Loddonite]

I'm not sure what you mean by that reference? Do they advertise in the glossy mags?

Increasingly - yes. CW seems to be trying to grow so there's more advertising - especially in the 'lifestyle' press alongside the major brands, albeit (I imagine) with a somewhat more restricted budget.

Back on the original subject... I have a few CW's and think the quality and price are good, so I am happy to recommend them. Styling, on the other hand, is down to personal taste and I certainly wouldn't recommend every CW watch. Steinhart is a very popular brand on the CW forum, so there's certainly some market overlap.

The "aviator" slot in my watchbox is filled by a Speedbird III - so, pretty though they are, I'm passing on the Steinhart and C8 vintage.

[bonzo697]

:P :P

I'd go for the Steinhart - Christopher Ward are too much of a Sunday Express magazine brand for me.

I'm not sure what you mean by that reference? Do they advertise in the glossy mags?

(sorry I don't read a paper! :) )

Barney

Yes - to me they're the watch equivalent of Charles Tyrwhitt.

[Laser Sag]

:P :P

I'd go for the Steinhart - Christopher Ward are too much of a Sunday Express magazine brand for me.

I'm not sure what you mean by that reference? Do they advertise in the glossy mags?

(sorry I don't read a paper! :) )

Barney

Yes - to me they're the watch equivalent of Charles Tyrwhitt.

Why knock a british company trying to offer good quality product at a sensible price.

[bonzo697]

:P :P

I'd go for the Steinhart - Christopher Ward are too much of a Sunday Express magazine brand for me.

I'm not sure what you mean by that reference? Do they advertise in the glossy mags?

(sorry I don't read a paper! :) )

Barney

Yes - to me they're the watch equivalent of Charles Tyrwhitt.

Why knock a british company trying to offer good quality product at a sensible price.

Because I'm British and not North Korean, so I can knock whatever I like regardless of where it comes from.

[Scrubnut]

:P :P

I'd go for the Steinhart - Christopher Ward are too much of a Sunday Express magazine brand for me.

I'm not sure what you mean by that reference? Do they advertise in the glossy mags?

(sorry I don't read a paper! :) )

Barney

Yes - to me they're the watch equivalent of Charles Tyrwhitt.

However...and to be fair...when CT appeared I stopped buying shirts at Pinks and started buying theirs. The quality is the same, they fit better and cost less. :D

[nr73]

I've got me popcorn ready for this one to inevitably kick off like all CW threads do, but so far it's all quite civil....

Come on chaps, must try harder. :D

[Laser Sag]

Barney[/quote]
Yes - to me they're the watch equivalent of Charles Tyrwhitt.[/quote]

Why knock a british company trying to offer good quality product at a sensible price.[/quote]
Because I'm British and not North Korean, so I can knock whatever I like regardless of where it comes from.[/quote]
So you knock it because you can not for a justifiable reason, don't really follow but in the land of free speech I suppose thats fair enough.

[bonzo697]

^
I gave a justifiable reason two days ago on page 1 of this thread.

[Laser Sag]

^
I gave a justifiable reason two days ago on page 1 of this thread.

Don't worry I had read that, didn't come across as a reason. It is obviously a perception you have which you are of course entitled to. I just thought the OP would be interested in thoughts on quality etc of the watches mentioned not the marketing strategy of the companies mentioned.
Out of interest have you handled a CW watch to see what they are like in the flesh.

[bonzo697]

^
I gave a justifiable reason two days ago on page 1 of this thread.

Don't worry I had read that, didn't come across as a reason. It is obviously a perception you have which you are of course entitled to. I just thought the OP would be interested in thoughts on quality etc of the watches mentioned not the marketing strategy of the companies mentioned.
Out of interest have you handled a CW watch to see what they are like in the flesh.

I haven't handled one because being a mail order brand my opinion is based purely on perception (as you rightly state). It also ties in with my original remark about them being a Sunday supplement brand which I would associate with the likes of Cotton Traders and grey velcro strap shoes - none of which I have any desire to own.

[Laser Sag]

I haven't handled one because being a mail order brand my opinion is based purely on perception (as you rightly state). It also ties in with my original remark about them being a Sunday supplement brand which I would associate with the likes of Cotton Traders and grey velcro strap shoes - none of which I have any desire to own.[/quote]
Some interesting perceptions there, none of which I would associate with myself or any others I know who own CW watches. Perhaps one day you should throw caution to the wind and try one, not the grey velcro strap shoes though :wink: , you may be pleasantly surprised.

[downer]

I am a strong supporter of CW. I own several and I have flipped a fair few over the past few years.

However, I think this 'Mail order/Charles Tyrwhitt/Sunday Supplement' point is valid and that it will do the brand no favours.

There is a disconnect between the product:

- great quality for the price point
- industry standard movements
- great packaging
- a warranty that is one of the best in the industry
- some design innovation (and some homaging)
- branching out into different horological directions (the Jump hour movement and an upcoming mono-pusher chronograph)

and the marketing:

- frequent sales and discounts which disturb the market prices and resale values to the point that few people 'in the know' will ever pay full price
- 'lifestyle' theming in the advertising
- using the sunday supplements/advertorials as an advertising medium
- a website that could be selling shirts, cd players or anything else, where they barely mention the technical details because they don't think the buyer could care less about that
- a new logo that is cheesy (imho)


In other words, products that could appeal to "watch enthusiasts" with a marketing message that is meant to appeal to the "mass market" who only buy a watch when they need one.

It is a pity, but at this point in time, the battle between "Marketing Company" and "Watch Maker" seems to being won by the guys with the MBA's........

[Scrubnut]

Well...the top marks for customer service go to.....(drum roll).....

Mr CW.....who got back to me himself in a couple of hours and has been very helpful. Looks like he's in the seat for the business then.

As for Mr K....if he can't be arsed to respond, I can't be arsed to buy his watches. It's a shame but having read some of the experiences of others, this is not uncommon it appears. Doesn't deserve to have a business when he ignores people trying to give him money.

[nr73]

Downer you've summed it up nicely. The many plus points of CW are offset or negated by the sometimes damaging or devaluing strategies that they choose to employ. Also for every jewel in the CW crown there tend to be at least the same amount of lemons in their range or even monstrosities (the Matisse for instance - was that watch designed by a court jester or something?). And overall there's a lot of plagiarism going on, which I wasn't aware of until I got more into the watch world and started to understand the classic designs and who did em.

Sitting here wearing my CW C8 pilot it's a really great watch that I get a lot of pleasure out of. But I have to admit, the fact that it shares the same case as the Matisse annoys the hell out of me. And then the rebrand shenanigans where they have one logo on the site and on the magazines, but continue to sell watches with the old logo. To make matters worse, the new logo looks like Coward if you squint or glance at it and they then decide to add the word London back in at the eleventh hour. That all just smacks to me of too much marketing bollocks. Just decide your brand/logo and stick to it for fecks sake. Are we to expect another logo in a few years time? It all does more damage than good.

I'm half tempted to flog my C8 and get a Nav B-uhr. I like the CW watches but the marketing stuff detracts from it all.

[stoneyloon]

It was CW's that got me into this ridiculous hobby! :twisted:
I haven't had one for years now but I've just ordered the C8 Vintage Edition as I've been after a flieger style watch for a few months now. God knows how long it'll be before Eddie's is out (next week knowing my luck!) and I didn't want another Steinhart......

[downer]

Downer you've summed it up nicely. The many plus points of CW are offset or negated by the sometimes damaging or devaluing strategies that they choose to employ. Also for every jewel in the CW crown there tend to be at least the same amount of lemons in their range or even monstrosities (the Matisse for instance - was that watch designed by a court jester or something?). And overall there's a lot of plagiarism going on, which I wasn't aware of until I got more into the watch world and started to understand the classic designs and who did em.

Sitting here wearing my CW C8 pilot it's a really great watch that I get a lot of pleasure out of. But I have to admit, the fact that it shares the same case as the Matisse annoys the hell out of me. And then the rebrand shenanigans where they have one logo on the site and on the magazines, but continue to sell watches with the old logo. To make matters worse, the new logo looks like Coward if you squint or glance at it and they then decide to add the word London back in at the eleventh hour. That all just smacks to me of too much marketing bollocks. Just decide your brand/logo and stick to it for fecks sake. Are we to expect another logo in a few years time? It all does more damage than good.

I'm half tempted to flog my C8 and get a Nav B-uhr. I like the CW watches but the marketing stuff detracts from it all.

Think you may be confusing your Matisse with your Sector?

[nr73]

Downer you've summed it up nicely. The many plus points of CW are offset or negated by the sometimes damaging or devaluing strategies that they choose to employ. Also for every jewel in the CW crown there tend to be at least the same amount of lemons in their range or even monstrosities (the Matisse for instance - was that watch designed by a court jester or something?). And overall there's a lot of plagiarism going on, which I wasn't aware of until I got more into the watch world and started to understand the classic designs and who did em.

Sitting here wearing my CW C8 pilot it's a really great watch that I get a lot of pleasure out of. But I have to admit, the fact that it shares the same case as the Matisse annoys the hell out of me. And then the rebrand shenanigans where they have one logo on the site and on the magazines, but continue to sell watches with the old logo. To make matters worse, the new logo looks like Coward if you squint or glance at it and they then decide to add the word London back in at the eleventh hour. That all just smacks to me of too much marketing bollocks. Just decide your brand/logo and stick to it for fecks sake. Are we to expect another logo in a few years time? It all does more damage than good.

I'm half tempted to flog my C8 and get a Nav B-uhr. I like the CW watches but the marketing stuff detracts from it all.

Think you may be confusing your Matisse with your Sector?

Possibly, but in my defence I have been drinking. Anyway you obviously know the offence to horology of which I speak.

Never let facts get in the way of having an opinion. :)

[Redd]

I started my little watch collecting habit via CWL and learnt about Steinhart through their forum, where Steinhart is a much discussed and liked brand. I currently have 1 of each brand, but on my longggg wish list have only 1 CWL & about 6 Steinhart's - which only indicates personal taste.

Both very good companies tbh, offering good quality/value watches - much like our host, Kemmner and others.

[jrpippen]

I'm yet to own a CW, although the trident has attracted me more than once now. Im
Not really into steinhart though. I didn't lle the quality at all. Felt tinny.

[Scrubnut]

I think, in light of everything and all my research, and the reluctance of some people to actually bother to sell me one of their watches...I'm going to do the right thing when Eddie opens his shop again and buy a SB3 ivory. It's a great watch in lots of ways and if I don't and they sell out, I'll regret it.