Menfolk! Possible car issue diagnostic help?

[verv]

I smacked the underside of my car last week.. Dented front bumper which damaged the grill.
I was driving off a loch ferry and the metal ramp wasn't in place properly so sprang up under the car and gave it a smack enough to do the above damage.

Anyway, now when I switch the engine off, there's a faint smell of petrol.

Anyone have any clues about what I may have damaged in the engine depths?

[gjob]

Might be better to post on PH but first off what car is it?

If you damaged bumper and grill area there's usually just Water in those areas - as in the radiator and associated pipework.

Depending on your car you may have an oil cooler around there but that's unlikely on "normal" cars

If it is the underside that will be the oil sump.

It possible that there is some fuelling bits down there further back as the feed from the petrol tank runs under the car. But the fuel pump and associated are usually located higher up in the engine bay.

It is all model specific though....

[Billyloves2boogie]

Whilst i cannot offer my expertise i can offer my sympathies, whatever you've done it sounds expensive.

[verv]

It's a fiat 500.. Not leaking any fluids after the event and covered 500miles quite cheerfullly after the event with no discernible engine issues apart from a bit of a whiff when I switch it off.

It's a bit of a mystery. It looks like only the plastics have suffered.

[onlynik]

As previously noted, a post on PH may yeild better results :)

[gjob]

verv,

Here's the link to the relevant area if that helps: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/f...=99&mid=116540

HTH
GJOB

[verv]

i can't bring myself to post on piston heads.
it's too testosteroney.

besides. I think they'd laugh at a fiat :lol:

[Zoomer]

I don't work for Fiat but I do work for Ford and the new KA is basically a Fiat 500. I'm not sure if it's relevant to the damage underneath but there is an issue with the breather pipe from the cam cover to the air filter that means it splits and then vents to atmosphere, you should be able to see the pipe under the air filter box and it goes to just behind the oil filler cap and is about 15mm in diameter and about 200mm long, have a look at that first and tomorrow I'll try and have a look underneath one to see what is under the car that may have been damaged.

[verv]

excellent!
I'll get one of the boys at work to look at the breather pipe you've described.

if you could take a nose and see if there's anything under there which could've been damaged I'd really appreciate it.

[redmond]

I don't work for Fiat but I do work for Ford and the new KA is basically a Fiat 500. I'm not sure if it's relevant to the damage underneath but there is an issue with the breather pipe from the cam cover to the air filter that means it splits and then vents to atmosphere, you should be able to see the pipe under the air filter box and it goes to just behind the oil filler cap and is about 15mm in diameter and about 200mm long, have a look at that first and tomorrow I'll try and have a look underneath one to see what is under the car that may have been damaged.

top post 8)

[europa]

Verv,
I know this might sound daft, but whenever I've done something similar to that in the past, I'm always on the hunt for 'what damage has been done' - looking out for strange noises, smells etc.. and then I become fixated on looking for something, and hear/smell something that I think wasn't there before - but it was, it's just that I never noticed before, and everything is all ok and fine.
I drive a convertible, and yesterday I had the roof down for the first time in ages.. I was getting really paranoid because I could hear/smell things that I haven't heard throughout the Winter with the windows shut & roof up.
I hope that makes sense!! Hope it's all OK.

[horrovac]

Verv,
I know this might sound daft, but whenever I've done something similar to that in the past, I'm always on the hunt for 'what damage has been done' - looking out for strange noises, smells etc.. and then I become fixated on looking for something, and hear/smell something that I think wasn't there before - but it was, it's just that I never noticed before, and everything is all ok and fine.
I drive a convertible, and yesterday I had the roof down for the first time in ages.. I was getting really paranoid because I could hear/smell things that I haven't heard throughout the Winter with the windows shut & roof up.
I hope that makes sense!! Hope it's all OK.

What he said. You're probably just imagining it - that often played me a trick as well. It's just your bad conscience nibbling on your nerves and making you highly sensitive to sensory inputs. Cars usually reek of petrol. Only now you're noticing it :)

If I were you I'd go to my... motorists association? Motorists club? (whatever is that called? AA and such?) and have them look at it. I find their services invaluable - you can always get quick advice and they'll have a quick look whatever is bothering you at any time, plus they're not trying to make you do repair work, so you can trust them. Plus, having to deal with a vast variety of vehicles and to be able to repair them on the roadside, they're quite expert mechanics, kind of mechanics ninjas.

500 is nice by the way :) I considered getting one myself, but I couldn't find any used ones and I'm too cheap to buy new. But I think a 500 Abarth would be a riot, and it looks really nice. I'm not sure how I'd look in one though :)

[verv]

Yes it could well be that.
The petrol waft isn't major.. And it's running fine.. But I have that "hmm.. Was that there before? :shock: " thing happening.

I figure if it's damage due to the ferry mishap, I'm insured.

The 500 is a fab car horro.. You can fling it about like a go kart :D
I'd love an abarth*


(* my ipad autocorrected that to apartheid.. Coulda been interesting)

[PreacherCain]

I've no idea about Fiat 500s (other than that they're rather fun, based on a short drive in a friend's) but a breather-type pipe is probably a good shout. The fuel system will be so highly pressurised that any leak would almost certainly be apparent as either a puddle on the garage floor or an obvious wet patch in the accumulated gunk under the car - based on my own experience of a pinhole leak caused by corrosion.

Don't underestimate how apparent the smell of fuel can be - even if it's not just the incident making you "notice" something that's been there all along, it's a highly distinctive smell. There's a charcoal filter on my old banger which is meant to stop petrol smells from coming out of the petrol tank's vent pipe; it's knackered, so the thing reeks like a refinery whenever I fill it up...

Finally, it's entirely possible that you've not done any harm at all. Under-car collisions can sound like the apocalypse and leave no visible trace as many cars have a big plastic tray under the engine which acts like a drum - even a small item hitting it and bouncing off can sound like you've driven over a mine. :shock: I was following a pick-up on the M1 once when a brick-sized block of wood bounced out of the loadbed - I had little option but to drive over it while braking and trying not to hit it with a wheel. I honestly thought it had ripped the sump off the engine, it made a terrifyingly loud bang/graunch sound. The total actual damage (aside from new underwear for driver and passenger) was a 6-inch crack in the plastic undertray.

[tixntox]

You'd be amazed at all the knocks and whistles I heard when I got my new hearing aid! :shock:

Mike

[london lad]

Verv,
I know this might sound daft, but whenever I've done something similar to that in the past, I'm always on the hunt for 'what damage has been done' - looking out for strange noises, smells etc.. and then I become fixated on looking for something, and hear/smell something that I think wasn't there before - but it was, it's just that I never noticed before, and everything is all ok and fine.
I drive a convertible, and yesterday I had the roof down for the first time in ages.. I was getting really paranoid because I could hear/smell things that I haven't heard throughout the Winter with the windows shut & roof up.
I hope that makes sense!! Hope it's all OK.

I did exactly this. I grounded the front valance coming out of a car park and convinced myself I could smell antifreeze.
Took all the front lower 'bumper' area off until I could clearly see that the bottom of the rad was undamaged and not leaking.
Still was convinced I could smell AF so took her into the main dealer for a check (FOC as car was only a few months old) They inspected it and pressure tested the cooling system but found nothing.

Then, strangely, I couldn't smell it any more! Funny thing the mind.

[horrovac]

Verv,
I know this might sound daft, but whenever I've done something similar to that in the past, I'm always on the hunt for 'what damage has been done' - looking out for strange noises, smells etc.. and then I become fixated on looking for something, and hear/smell something that I think wasn't there before - but it was, it's just that I never noticed before, and everything is all ok and fine.
I drive a convertible, and yesterday I had the roof down for the first time in ages.. I was getting really paranoid because I could hear/smell things that I haven't heard throughout the Winter with the windows shut & roof up.
I hope that makes sense!! Hope it's all OK.

I did exactly this. I grounded the front valance coming out of a car park and convinced myself I could smell antifreeze.
Took all the front lower 'bumper' area off until I could clearly see that the bottom of the rad was undamaged and not leaking.
Still was convinced I could smell AF so took her into the main dealer for a check (FOC as car was only a few months old) They inspected it and pressure tested the cooling system but found nothing.

Then, strangely, I couldn't smell it any more! Funny thing the mind.

Quite. I did similar things several times. Mostly driving through potholes and convincing myself I'd knocked the suspension to bits, when in fact it was totally fine.

However, once I thought I smelt petrol it turned out I really did - I found the leak on the connection of a hose and pressurised rail supplying the injectors. A nice little puddle of petrol gently boiling in the heat of the engine. Next to the spark plugs. With supply and return hose running the length of the engine directly above it.

So even though one is probably imagining it, it does bear checking.

[PreacherCain]

However, once I thought I smelt petrol it turned out I really did - I found the leak on the connection of a hose and pressurised rail supplying the injectors. A nice little puddle of petrol gently boiling in the heat of the engine. Next to the spark plugs. With supply and return hose running the length of the engine directly above it.

So even though one is probably imagining it, it does bear checking.

It works both ways... When I had my fuel leak (uncharacteristically for something designed by Teutonic engineers, the 928's mild steel fuel lines pass through the rear wheel arch and under the car, which means they get eaten by salt) I saw a puddle by the rear wheel when filling up. I sniffed it and decided it was probably diesel that someone else had spilled.

It was only when there was a puddle of the same stuff in the same place outside my house that I came out of denial. :blackeye:

[verv]

Update.

The guts are hanging out of my car.

something is dangling that looks like silver shagpile carpet.

best ring the insurers. :cry:

[horrovac]

Update.

The guts are hanging out of my car.

something is dangling that looks like silver shagpile carpet.

best ring the insurers. :cry:

Could be the flexible hose of the exhaust system. Not that bad.

[verv]

no.. i think its radiator filling.

it looks like coconut matting, but is metal, and seems to be coming from the front bit behind the grill.

exhaust things are at the back?

[gingerboy]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_7IhKWjDc9wg/T ... r_Body.jpg

Does it look like the heat shield material front most in this picture?

Paul

[verv]

no.. its like metal brush/coconut matting.. a strip is hanging.. it looks like the stuff thats inside the radiator.

im not very good at explaining.

[oldandgrumpy]

Like this ? :

[gingerboy]

no.. its like metal brush/coconut matting.. a strip is hanging.. it looks like the stuff thats inside the radiator.

im not very good at explaining.

So more like this then??

http://image.stockcarracing.com/f/11008 ... epair+.jpg

The above is an image of the Veins in a car radiator which I don't think look like Coconut matting but do appreciate that some things can be hard to describe :)

Paul

[gingerboy]

anything here help..... best pic's I can find but a turbo charged abart version so may not be identical.

http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/media/ ... cooler.pdf

Paul

[verv]

[horrovac]

With "coconut matting" I rather associated this:



(flexible exhaust pipe)

However a strip of radiator ribs would be imaginable. Probably not the radiator itself (it would probably be punctured), but possibly the condensator from the aircon, it is often stacked atop the radiator.

Does your aircon still work, verv? Set it on coldest possible and see if it comes colder than environment air from the vents. If it's this I think it'll be about 2-300€ material cost, plus an hour or two of work, plus an aircon refill at about another 100.

[verv]

the pics i put up are of the underside damage and guts spillage.. i had to go wriggling about under the car which caused much amusement to onlookers.. but thats the stuff.. and the slice to the underside.

ive just stuck an insurance claim in for it.

[horrovac]

Yep, those are cooling ribs. Seems well smashed up, if it were a radiator it would have leaked and you would notice. Probably aircon.

[london lad]

Not good :cry:

[verv]

not good at all.
ive poked the strip back up the hole so that its not dragging on the floor.

car is running as per usual at the minute.. do you reckon its still safe to drive?

[horrovac]

not good at all.
ive poked the strip back up the hole so that its not dragging on the floor.

car is running as per usual at the minute.. do you reckon its still safe to drive?

Probably. It is probably just aircon, if it were the radiator you'd have overheated long ago. However remote diagnostic is impossible here. Find a garage or ask AA to have a quick look and tell you if it is safe to drive or not. We have no way of knowing this (and I'd want a second, more competent opinion if I were standing next to the car, to go sure).

[verv]

im going to assume that since its done 500 odd miles since the crunch, some of them at high speeds, itll last the weekend before it has its garage booking.

[gingerboy]

Yep, those are cooling ribs. Seems well smashed up, if it were a radiator it would have leaked and you would notice. Probably aircon.

or possibly intercooler if turbocharged but going by the earlier link I posted the intercooler is on the passanger side and higher up.

Good luck with it

Paul

[oldandgrumpy]

Oh dear. :shock:

She was right, you know. We should have listened to her :?

Check the level of water in the radiator expansion tank (plastic bottle where you would top up the radiator with water - probably has orange liquid inside or other colour (antifreeze mixed with the water))

There will be min-max markings on the side of the bottle.

If the level is between the markings, it should mean you're not loosing water from the radiator.

Any pools of liquid underneath the engine when parked ?

It's been a few days since the initial accident, so if you were loosing water from the radiator, you would have had problems with an overheated engine.

As Horrovac suggests, it's probably the Air Con.

I'd say it was safe to drive.

Good luck :?

[gingerboy]

Great advice by "oldandgrumpy" however I would add that looking at the severity of the impact and the fact it has dislodged the veins / packing of the rad if one of the pipes that form the body of the rad has been knocked out of shape I would err on the side of caution. Whilst it may be holding out on shorter runs potentially on a longer run you don't want to be left stranded!!

Is there a fiat garage nearby that may be able to have a quick look??

Paul

[markrlondon]

Ah, nuclear fuel pellets.

[verv]

grumpy - ive been eyeballing for leakages ever since it happened because of the funky smell.. nothing though.. not even a spot.. which is good i suppose.

ill go and have a look at the rad levels when im next outside.

really the only place im going to run it over the weekend is home, and to the garage.

[gingerboy]

grumpy - ive been eyeballing for leakages ever since it happened because of the funky smell.. nothing though.. not even a spot.. which is good i suppose.

ill go and have a look at the rad levels when im next outside.

really the only place im going to run it over the weekend is home, and to the garage.

any ideas what is wrong with it yet?

Paul

[Foxy100]

Celia, if the metal ramp on the ferry caused the damage then their insurance should cover it, not yours, surely? I would be having a word with them before filing a claim with your own insurance.

This is precisely what I was thinking. And I hope your Fiat dealers up there are better than the ones in the south, they just don't give a flying toss. As much as I love our 500 I really don't want to have anything to do with any of the local dealers and if we keep it when the lease runs out we'll be taking it to specialists for service.

[verv]

im in the middle of an argy bargy with insurers at the minute.

in the meantime it was the radiator that was spilling out, so its at the garage having a replacement rad, new grille and bumper, and a patch up of the engine protection plate.

hopefully ill get it back next week.



ed - my insurers are being wankers.. and theres some question marks over the ferry insurance because i didnt pay for the service, it was a free ferry put on for locals due to a landslide wiping the road to applecross out.
i suspect the arguing will go on way after the car is fixed, but at the minute i appear to be footing the bill.

[JasonM]

im in the middle of an argy bargy with insurers at the minute.

in the meantime it was the radiator that was spilling out, so its at the garage having a replacement rad, new grille and bumper, and a patch up of the engine protection plate.

hopefully ill get it back next week.



ed - my insurers are being wankers.. and theres some question marks over the ferry insurance because i didnt pay for the service, it was a free ferry put on for locals due to a landslide wiping the road to applecross out.
i suspect the arguing will go on way after the car is fixed, but at the minute i appear to be footing the bill.

They would still need public liability insurance surely ?