"Seiko makes the best mechanical watch in the world."

[patrick]

I'm on the list for another GS to replace the Titanium Spring drive diver i stupidly sold.......



(image borrowed from Arizona Fine Time)

mmmm 8) limited edition SD GMT. :drunken:

That dial is a mess.

Seikos are "the best" the same way Toyota cars are "the best"... imho they have quality but lack any kind of emotion.

And what a mess! ruins what could be a great watch

[jrpippen]

I'm on the list for another GS to replace the Titanium Spring drive diver i stupidly sold.......



(image borrowed from Arizona Fine Time)

mmmm 8) limited edition SD GMT. :drunken:

That dial is a mess.

Seikos are "the best" the same way Toyota cars are "the best"... imho they have quality but lack any kind of emotion.

And what a mess! ruins what could be a great watch

Actually of all the GS I've seen this is probably my favorite.

[patrick]

Well I suppose there is a little less script on the dial than a Rolex :)

[Daddelvirks]

I'd prefer a good many Zenith movements over most Seiko movements. Maybe I'd like a Credor?

Seiko make and are capable of making some amazing movements and watches and I would really like to add a few one day.

Rolex are far from the best watches in the world (added to say regardless they have still made my all time favourite watch) - they weren't even stated as such by anyone on this thread either before the comment came up in its rejection.

I'm liking the Limited Edition GMT.

How many movements does Zenith produce???
The Elite and El Primero, that's all :roll:

Daddel.

[lantis]

That dial is a mess.

Seikos are "the best" the same way Toyota cars are "the best"... imho they have quality but lack any kind of emotion.

Love the movement, hate the dial. The power indicator just ruins it.
Still saving up for a GS GMT though. Now that's a stunner!

[angeche]

Mmmm, I love all watches. But I do think that Seiko has been a discovery for me: from current to vintage, even to desk clocks!

next month I will be in Japan and I am thinking of buying this:

[mark a.]

^^^^^ Wow, yes indeed. That is stunning.

[Jay]

That's a beauty Angeche. Big thumbs up :)

Of the varied comments on the LE GMT with the green dial, it is polarising opinion which is good! For me the dial is reminiscent of the green dial Sagarmatha which had a dial that could never be captured well in photos but in the flesh was stunning...and was again a watch that was either loved or hated....and one that i miss :(



I'm looking forward to getting my mitts on the GMT, but unfortunately that is by no means confirmed :(

People are waking up to GS, albeit slowly, and that is a good thing IMHO.

[andrew]

And what a mess! ruins what could be a great watch

I'm tempted to say "sure, but in extreme close-up two foot wide on the average monitor, it's going to look terrible. Three centimetres wide and it would be fine". But since that courtesy is not uniformly extended, I'm not going to here, and I'm going to agree that the mishmash of colours, designs, radial lines and odd-looking indices is kind of a dog's dinner.

[angeche]

Mmmm, I love all watches. But I do think that Seiko has been a discovery for me: from current to vintage, even to desk clocks!

next month I will be in Japan and I am thinking of buying this:

That is very nice. What model number is that?

SBGM025

[abraxas]

Video of the Ananta Auto Chrono 130th Anniversary (after half way it repeats without sound)
http://www.trocaderotime.com/news_detai ... 6e93cd197c

With lacquer dial. Too rich for me but a masterpiece. The plates could have been better finished but as you can't see them ...

john

[Huertecilla]

And what a mess! ruins what could be a great watch

I'm tempted to say "sure, but in extreme close-up two foot wide on the average monitor, it's going to look terrible. Three centimetres wide and it would be fine".

Which is an illustration of the SLoP; the Schöön Level of Perfection = measure of comparison of finish and manufacturing.

[AlphaOmega]

Perhaps a resolution would be to insert the words 'some of' into the title of this thread.

FWIW I like the subtlety of GS.

Perhaps it would be easier for some people to acknowledge the quality of the range if Seiko had re-branded the high end stuff.

[jrpippen]

Perhaps a resolution would be to insert the words 'some of' into the title of this thread.

FWIW I like the subtlety of GS.

Perhaps it would be easier for some people to acknowledge the quality of the range if Seiko had re-branded the high end stuff.

Absolutely, and I think it's defiantly the reason Seiko don't get the respect they deserve for that high end stuff. The name seiko devalues a £4000 watch because we all associate it with a 50 quid beater. It shows real tenacity that seiko have not gone for the easy Toyota/Lexus approach. I'm not sure it shows the best approach to their business in the west though. At the end of the day Seiko is just a word, that's become a brand. A brand that is holding back the high esteem their finest work should be entitled to IMHO. If they called GS Credor and employed some clever marketing people it would be a very very different story for many unconverted wis and normal human alike.

[horrovac]

Perhaps a resolution would be to insert the words 'some of' into the title of this thread.

FWIW I like the subtlety of GS.

Perhaps it would be easier for some people to acknowledge the quality of the range if Seiko had re-branded the high end stuff.

Absolutely, and I think it's defiantly the reason Seiko don't get the respect they deserve for that high end stuff. The name seiko devalues a £4000 watch because we all associate it with a 50 quid beater. It shows real tenacity that seiko have not gone for the easy Toyota/Lexus approach. I'm not sure it shows the best approach to their business in the west.

They have not? What about the Credor and so on?

The fact that Seiko makes cheap watches as well would make no difference to me. It would even be a reason more to get one. I'd prefer an expensive watch of mine to say "Seiko" on a dial than display some pretentious brand name.

[Plake]

^ Agree with this. I'm lucky enough to have 2 GS and an Astron which is from the GS stable.

Among the many things to like about them is the fact that they aren't ostentatious.

[jrpippen]

Perhaps a resolution would be to insert the words 'some of' into the title of this thread.

FWIW I like the subtlety of GS.

Perhaps it would be easier for some people to acknowledge the quality of the range if Seiko had re-branded the high end stuff.

Absolutely, and I think it's defiantly the reason Seiko don't get the respect they deserve for that high end stuff. The name seiko devalues a £4000 watch because we all associate it with a 50 quid beater. It shows real tenacity that seiko have not gone for the easy Toyota/Lexus approach. I'm not sure it shows the best approach to their business in the west.

They have not? What about the Credor and so on?

The fact that Seiko makes cheap watches as well would make no difference to me. It would even be a reason more to get one. I'd prefer an expensive watch of mine to say "Seiko" on a dial than display some pretentious brand name.

I wouldn't, and I think you will find (right or wrongly) that 99% of the people who walk in to the watch room at Harrods feel the same. I wasn't talking about "you" who is BTW in the minority, but Seikos market which is generally the normal "brand effected" non fine watch appreciating European and American. Branding is everything. How do you think gola can charge 100 quid for a shite shoe made in Vietnam.

I'm not advocating the brand culture, but it's real and here to stay and of Seiko played the game
With it a little more, using it for their advantage they would sell more watches and improve their "brand" at the same time.

If they are selling all the want to (which I think is the case) and are happy with their market kudos then no problem. But, for many who would appreciate a seiko for is finer points, and risk money that would be soundly invested ina. Rolex on it, (I include myself in this part) the brand awareness must be improved for the risk to be viable. Try sellinga marine master, then a submariner. You know where the money is safe and that's down to years of marketing and clever branding right from the outset by Rolex.

Not to mention that many sales of expensive watches, will be purely because they are a status symbol. Nothing wrong with that as many Bently owners should agree. ;-)


The Credor watches are the Monaco club watches and won't effect the kudos for the majority of the market. They are in the upper stratosphere, an attainable by the vast majority.

[Dapper]

I'm not advocating the brand culture, but it's real and here to stay and of Seiko played the game......

Seiko are above all that sort of nonsense :mrgreen:

[darrenw]

There's no doubting that Seiko is a fine engineering company (as are Citizen), but a watch needs to deliver the whole package for me and on a personal level, I simply don't like their designs.

Maybe somewhat of a generalisation, but I far prefer european flair to japanese precision in the looks department.

And I don't buy watches that I don't like the look of just because they've got clever engineering inside.

But perhaps I'm just shallow :P

[Chris_in_the_UK]

There's no doubting that Seiko is a fine engineering company (as are Citizen), but a watch needs to deliver the whole package for me and on a personal level, I simply don't like their designs.

Maybe somewhat of a generalisation, but I far prefer european flair to japanese precision in the looks department.

And I don't buy watches that I don't like the look of just because they've got clever engineering inside.

But perhaps I'm just shallow :P

Not shallow at all Darren - occasionally though function wins over form (AKA the GTR beating the new 911 in the latest EVO test).

[darrenw]

There's no doubting that Seiko is a fine engineering company (as are Citizen), but a watch needs to deliver the whole package for me and on a personal level, I simply don't like their designs.

Maybe somewhat of a generalisation, but I far prefer european flair to japanese precision in the looks department.

And I don't buy watches that I don't like the look of just because they've got clever engineering inside.

But perhaps I'm just shallow :P

Not shallow at all Darren - occasionally though function wins over form (AKA the GTR beating the new 911 in the latest EVO test).

True, but I'd have a Maserati over both, knowing full well that it's not as well engineered as either, but the looks...

See, I am just shallow :D

[Chris_in_the_UK]

There's no doubting that Seiko is a fine engineering company (as are Citizen), but a watch needs to deliver the whole package for me and on a personal level, I simply don't like their designs.

Maybe somewhat of a generalisation, but I far prefer european flair to japanese precision in the looks department.

And I don't buy watches that I don't like the look of just because they've got clever engineering inside.

But perhaps I'm just shallow :P

Not shallow at all Darren - occasionally though function wins over form (AKA the GTR beating the new 911 in the latest EVO test).

True, but I'd have a Maserati over both, knowing full well that it's not as well engineered as either, but the looks...

See, I am just shallow :D

Like I said, not shallow :wink:

[abraxas]

There's no doubting that Seiko is a fine engineering company (as are Citizen), but a watch needs to deliver the whole package for me and on a personal level, I simply don't like their designs.

Maybe somewhat of a generalisation, but I far prefer european flair to japanese precision in the looks department.

And I don't buy watches that I don't like the look of just because they've got clever engineering inside.

But perhaps I'm just shallow :P

I must admit that I don't like over 90% of their designs.

john

[jason recliner]

Agreed. I reckon 99% of Seiko's designs suck arse. Luckily that still leaves a 100 or so that are world beaters.

:mrgreen:

[abraxas]

Agreed. I reckon 99% of Seiko's designs suck arse. Luckily that still leaves a 100 or so that are world beaters.

:mrgreen:

They always seem to overshoot the mark when they try to design for us. The Ananta Katana being a proverbial example. When all we really wanted was the understated JDM models.

john

[horrovac]

Agreed. I reckon 99% of Seiko's designs suck arse. Luckily that still leaves a 100 or so that are world beaters.

:mrgreen:

They always seem to overshoot the mark when they try to design for us. The Ananta Katana being a proverbial example. When all we really wanted was the understated JDM models.

Very true, I mentioned this several times. When you look at what kind of rubbish they officially export to Europe, you get a feeling that they profoundly don't "get" European taste.

[jason recliner]

Maybe Seiko's ugly 'western market' designs are a response to accusations that their traditional designs are derivative and unoriginal. Many people say their GS models are Rolex rip-offs, so they had to come up with something original. Watches have been made for so long now that any truly original style now generally looks hideous.

[Plake]

Agreed. I reckon 99% of Seiko's designs suck arse. Luckily that still leaves a 100 or so that are world beaters.

:mrgreen:

They always seem to overshoot the mark when they try to design for us. The Ananta Katana being a proverbial example. When all we really wanted was the understated JDM models.

john

Excellent example John :)

One of the most perfectly beautiful bits of watch design ever IMO.

[jrpippen]

Agreed. I reckon 99% of Seiko's designs suck arse. Luckily that still leaves a 100 or so that are world beaters.

:mrgreen:

They always seem to overshoot the mark when they try to design for us. The Ananta Katana being a proverbial example. When all we really wanted was the understated JDM models.

john

Excellent example John :)

One of the most perfectly beautiful bits of watch design ever IMO.

Agreed. Omega really nailed it with the Seamaster 600 didn't they. ;-)

[Neil.C]

People think that Seiko would sell more of their top end watches if they rebranded them. They have I guess with the "Grand" bit.

However I reckon Seiko is not too bothered pushing their top stuff when they can probably make more real money selling their countless millions of lower grade watches every year.

The top end is probably to show what they can do and to keep up their profile up, after all it wasn't that long ago that Seiko stopped Grand Seiko and high end mechanical watches altogether when they wrongly assumed everybody would want only quartz, found themselves cast adrift somewhat and have had to come storming back.

[AlphaOmega]

People think that Seiko would sell more of their top end watches if they rebranded them. They have I guess with the "Grand" bit.

However I reckon Seiko is not too bothered pushing their top stuff when they can probably make more real money selling their countless millions of lower grade watches every year.

The top end is probably to show what they can do and to keep up their profile up, after all it wasn't that long ago that Seiko stopped Grand Seiko and high end mechanical watches altogether when they wrongly assumed everybody would want only quartz, found themselves cast adrift somewhat and have had to come storming back.

I think that's quite right. Seiko have marketed themselves good quality low end over here and are happy with that. I can't see them trying too much high end over here in a market place that's saturated in the belief that it has to be Swiss to be high quality.

It's worth remembering that GS is not just about high-end market penetration. The positive effects of 'halo' products on the rest of a product range (in terms of sales and brand equity) are clearly documented. So, the progress of GS in certain markets may be supplemented by greater Seiko market-share in the cheaper segments as a result, too. :)

[rfrazier]

They do some of the most interesting work in their Micro Artist Studio. Here is an article about the finishing of the Credor Eichi.

http://www.watchesbysjx.com/2011/12/...-in-world.html

I like that they give a mirror finish to the inside of the barrel. :)

Best wishes,
Bob

[Dapper]

They do some of the most interesting work in their Micro Artist Studio. Here is an article about the finishing of the Credor Eichi.

http://www.watchesbysjx.com/2011/12/...-in-world.html

I like that they give a mirror finish to the inside of the barrel. :)

Best wishes,
Bob

I was starting to get the itch for a Credor Eichi until I saw the price tag of $66k USD. :shock: If you'd struggle to pay £4k for a Grand Seiko imagine the looks on European faces as you told them your £42k classic dress watch was made by...Seiko.. :twisted:

Absolutely. Seiko is hopeless for people wanting to impress others with a brand name :twisted:

[SimonK]

People think that Seiko would sell more of their top end watches if they rebranded them. They have I guess with the "Grand" bit.

However I reckon Seiko is not too bothered pushing their top stuff when they can probably make more real money selling their countless millions of lower grade watches every year.

The top end is probably to show what they can do and to keep up their profile up, after all it wasn't that long ago that Seiko stopped Grand Seiko and high end mechanical watches altogether when they wrongly assumed everybody would want only quartz, found themselves cast adrift somewhat and have had to come storming back.

There is a very good article in the current issue of WatchTime magazine* about Seiko - history, current models, etc., including an interview with Shinji Hattori, CEO Seiko Watch Corp. He says no more two Seikos - "We are trying now to integrate our collections to present one new Seiko to the world".


*A copy of the current issue of WatchTime magazine will shortly be coming to a Sales Corner near you in a simple, free to enter competition. :)

[bmpf]

No-one at home or at work has really noticed this one yet...but that's not why I bought it really.

[Daddelvirks]

No-one at home or at work has really noticed this one yet...but that's not why I bought it really.

Just soooo 8)

Daddel.

[horrovac]

No-one at home or at work has really noticed this one yet...but that's not why I bought it really.

Just soooo 8)

Daddel.

Yeah, I love that. That's a vintage one, isn't it?

[SternG]

^ ^

I think it's a modern one, a limited edition. SBGW031?

Beautiful :drunken:


EDIT It's a 130th anniversary edition. The Search function didn't want to cooperate, but I found it anyway :D

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=209338&hilit=grand+seiko#p2149 470

[Huertecilla]

No-one at home or at work has really noticed this one yet...

The ultimate pérsonal pleasure :idea:

...and time only; simply representation of time perfected = what Grand Seiko was once about.

[SternG]

No-one at home or at work has really noticed this one yet...

The ultimate pérsonal pleasure :idea:

...and time only; simply representation of time perfected = what Grand Seiko was once about.

It's still a wiggly spring though :D

[Huertecilla]

No-one at home or at work has really noticed this one yet...

The ultimate pérsonal pleasure :idea:

...and time only; simply representation of time perfected = what Grand Seiko was once about.

It's still a wiggly spring though :D

GS has both perfected.

So have one with a wiggly qc tuning fork tóó.

The latter for work, the other as a luxury. Conform the B&H :idea:

[Neil.C]

People think that Seiko would sell more of their top end watches if they rebranded them. They have I guess with the "Grand" bit.

However I reckon Seiko is not too bothered pushing their top stuff when they can probably make more real money selling their countless millions of lower grade watches every year.

The top end is probably to show what they can do and to keep their profile up, after all it wasn't that long ago that Seiko stopped Grand Seiko and high end mechanical watches altogether when they wrongly assumed everybody would want only quartz, found themselves cast adrift somewhat and have had to come storming back.

I think that's quite right. Seiko have marketed themselves good quality low end over here and are happy with that. I can't see them trying too much high end over here in a market place that's saturated in the belief that it has to be Swiss to be high quality.

It's worth remembering that GS is not just about high-end market penetration. The positive effects of 'halo' products on the rest of a product range (in terms of sales and brand equity) are clearly documented. So, the progress of GS in certain markets may be supplemented by greater Seiko market-share in the cheaper segments as a result, too. :)

Which is what I said originally. :wink:

[jrpippen]

It doesn't work in the western markets though. Although their business plan here this far jhas quite obviously not been geared that way.

[Huertecilla]

It doesn't work in the western markets though.

No?
It works a treat :!:
Have a look at the price ceiling for a Seiko today versus 10 years ago.

Just received pm of a mainstream TZ-UK member who has a non Grand!! Seiko Ananta SD as ´great value for money´.

Even pre-owned those go for ten times the price ceiling of pre 2000 wis-dom.

[Murdoc]

I don't suppose anybody has a copy of the article they could scan in and post up for us? I can't find a copy of the magazine anywhere.

[SternG]

It doesn't work in the western markets though.

No?
It works a treat :!:
Have a look at the price ceiling for a Seiko today versus 10 years ago.

Just received pm of a mainstream TZ-UK member who has a non Grand!! Seiko Ananta SD as ´great value for money´.

Even pre-owned those go for ten times the price ceiling of pre 2000 wis-dom.

My local Seiko shop (can't quite bring myself to call them an AD, for some reason :P) have just got in a great many Anantas. I went in for a closer look, and I must admit they're very impressive 8)

How do you define a "mainstream TZ-UK member"? :D

[744ER]

It doesn't work in the western markets though.

No?
It works a treat :!:
Have a look at the price ceiling for a Seiko today versus 10 years ago.

Just received pm of a mainstream TZ-UK member who has a non Grand!! Seiko Ananta SD as ´great value for money´.

Even pre-owned those go for ten times the price ceiling of pre 2000 wis-dom.

Vintage Rolex prices have risen more than that since pre 2000 prices...

The anantas are decent VFM, nothing more, nothing less. If you like the style, which many (most?) europeans do not. Any true WIS knows that. That is WIS-dóm.

[Karl]

i was sat listening to two lads at work discussing this same subject but with no fanboy-ism or hatred, rolex vs breitling, rolex was the best said one because its a rolex, i'm right arn't i karl he asked me, the other chap said breitling was the best because someone had told him so, no reason why, just they are.

they both looked at me for my verdict, i told them to buy whichever they liked the look of most or join a watch forum where they would get an unbiased sensible opinion :D

[o u t a t i m e]

I don't suppose anybody has a copy of the article they could scan in and post up for us? I can't find a copy of the magazine anywhere.

Sorry, I did promise this earlier but didn't get around to it. I will try to find some time tomorrow.

[Murdoc]

I don't suppose anybody has a copy of the article they could scan in and post up for us? I can't find a copy of the magazine anywhere.

Sorry, I did promise this earlier but didn't get around to it. I will try to find some time tomorrow.

Thanks outatime, would be appreciated.

Are you a Back to the Future fan? :)