Watches - Last bastion of mechanics?

[RobM]

This could be the ramblings of a man clearly out of touch with mechanical items, but the thought crossed my mind today that watches - automatic and hand-wound - could be one of the last remaining every-day, every-man mechanical items left in our lives.

I can't think of many more products that are commonly used (i.e. a part of every-day life for normal folk) that are entirely mechanical. No electronics mixed with mechanical (such as an engine), not just a manual item without any real mechanics, even though they have moving parts (pens, the compass), but an item that is powered, controlled, regulated and output entirely by mechanics.

Even items that have traditionally been electronics and mechanics combined as losing their mechanical elements... a trend that will no doubt continue. But mechanical watches are stronger than ever, new brands are appearing that are entirely mechanical, existing brands are refining their movements to higher standards than ever before. Watches show no sign of ever being entirely digital. They could be the last mechanical part of our lives before too much longer.

Or is this indeed the ramblings of a man clearly out of touch with mechanics?

[Henrik Gelardi]

Could be ramblings, but in that case, I do the same thing. I think that many of us are fascinated with the mechanical heart and soul of our watches. I sure am.

I generally love display backs because it allows me to see the movements, I bought a chinese cheapie skeletonized movement just to be able to look at it, and I remember even as a kid to enjoy if my grandad would open the back of his pocket watch so I could peek inside. And you are right, purely mechanically driven devices are becoming rarer and rarer, and that only makes the enjoyment so much sweeter for me...

To imagine that some clever soul, has been able to figure out how may little wheels and springs, and how many teeth on this wheel to catch another etc. and that ends up with the precision of +- 5 seconds per day.... Just fascinating...

Well, that was rambling too, I suppose :D

[thenikjones]

Bicycles? There'll always be a market for pedal power.

[MerlinShepherd]

I love attention to detail. My work requires it and the tools of my trade are well engineered and hand crafted items. I play woodwind instruments (clarinet, flute and sax) for a living, all of which require beautifully crafted engineering (albeit way simpler than a watch).

I have no digital instruments, and I dislike quartz watches. The beautifully balanced, crafted and assembled movement is a joy to me.

[ColDaspin]

Bicycles? There'll always be a market for pedal power.

Exactly. And it's interesting to note the current trend/reversion towards steel among the CIS community.

[RobM]

I love attention to detail. My work requires it and the tools of my trade are well engineered and hand crafted items. I play woodwind instruments (clarinet, flute and sax) for a living, all of which require beautifully crafted engineering (albeit way simpler than a watch).

I have no digital instruments, and I dislike quartz watches. The beautifully balanced, crafted and assembled movement is a joy to me.

I'm the opposite to some of what you've said - I'm an IT engineer by trade and now run an IT Ops' team, so my career to date has involved managing silicon, software and humans. I think that's part of the reason I like mechanical watches, there is something there other than soulless electronics.

Much like Henrik Gelardi's excellent ramblings 8) I too appreciate and am yet baffled by the genius and craftsmanship that goes into these movements, into mechanical engineer in general in fact. Just staring at something mechanical trying to figure it out fascinates me. Writing this makes me think I might be a little odd, I guess that's the result of a life working with something that doesn't really exist in a physical form :)

[Danstone]

Bicycles? There'll always be a market for pedal power.

And yet there seems to be a growing demand for battery assisted bikes for those who are to lazy to pedal.

[Chinnock]

I think that many of us are fascinated with the mechanical heart and soul of our watches.

Summed up for me perfectly!

[100thmonkey]

I would like to understand more about it, its like the offside rule to a girl trying to understand the exact mechanical process

[walkerwek1958]

I agree with the OPs sentiments.

Something facinating about mechanical watches. Even though I now work on them regularly I still get a buzz out of seeing a movement running, especially after I`ve just assembled it.

Greater than the sum of its parts, definitely :).

Still intrigues me how such small parts can be made so accurately .

Paul

[Viking72]

Funny that, a friend just asked me the other day "what's the big deal about watches? tic toc tic toc, they all just do the same function"

To which I replied (as I best remember) "I appreciate the amazing engineering, design and materials that go into making a quality watch. It's there on my wrist, a representation of the skill and construction that humans are capable of and it does what it needs to do every second, forever, without any help from batteries or computers or whatever, it really is the perpetual machine. So I appreciate an expensive automatic watch as the pinnacle of design and engineering and also as a symbol of how time is important - everything in life, success or failure, is determined by being present or acting at the right moment. That's why I love watches"

to which he said, "now that you put it like that I see your point..."

(yes I know I'm verbose and this was borderline-pontifficating, but I just thought it was funny how the OP was thinking along the same lines...)

[AstroBoy]

Fully mechanical vintage film cameras. And the magic of the darkroom. :)

Digital may be more convenient but film photography has more soul.

[robcat]

RobM, I agree with your sentiments.

Obviously there are numerous attractions to high-quality watches, but the mechanical aspect is certainly a strong draw. There's no doubt it appeals to the (usually) male obsession with "how" things are done, rather than the simple end-result. I don't think it's an obsession with the past, as at the other end of the tech-scale, computers - or more accurately the technical workings of computers - appeals to men, whereas women just tend to be concerned about what the computer can do for them, and how easy it is to use. (Forgive generalisations).

To me a mechanical watch is a more "elegant" solution to the problem, plus it takes more skill to achieve than simple electronics - which ironically, in some way are just as clever. (Although much in mechanical watch production is now CAD/CAM anyway - it's more the illusion).

[Neil.C]

Fully agree re the mechanical stuff.

I love mechanical movements and TBH I don't think I would have any interest in horology if everything was quartz.

Somebody mentioned earlier about a similarity to mechanical camera's and film and that's how I feel.

I used to be a keen photographer in the past but with the onset of digital I lost all interest.

[tomkandy]

Bicycles? There'll always be a market for pedal power.

Exactly. And it's interesting to note the current trend/reversion towards steel among the CIS community.

I think the main reason for that is that people have realised the only benefits to aluminium and carbon fibre are their light weight, and if you can live with an extra 1-2kg of weight you can get something that will last longer and be more pleasant to ride. Or of course you can spend silly money and buy titanium, and get the best of both worlds 8) With bikes you've got an amazing range of possibilities when it comes to level of mechanical and electronic complexity. I know people who ride fixed gear bikes without brakes, at which point the only mechanics are a single chain drive, and a few ball bearings. At the other end of the scale, you've got the likes of the rohloff speedhub, an entire 14 gear, 500% range system in an hub

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7USVMrg5phY

Cars, despite the ubiquitous electronics, still have massive mechanical complexity too, as anyone who's ever worked on one and messed it up knows

[abraxas]

Fully agree re the mechanical stuff.

I love mechanical movements and TBH I don't think I would have any interest in horology if everything was quartz.

Somebody mentioned earlier about a similarity to mechanical camera's and film and that's how I feel.

I used to be a keen photographer in the past but with the onset of digital I lost all interest.

Interesting that you should say so. I was there at the birth of quartz and I must say, I was as captivated by that technology, as I was with the mechanicals. For about ten years I went off mechanicals altogether ... (and somewhere in-there came the Accutrons too).

Since the mechanical renaissance I see things much differently.

In general, the mechanism that "attaches you to things" is quite strong, and it will always find "something". I come from a culture that likes knives and as a youngster I was into knives and carrying a knife long before I was carrying a watch.

Which makes me think ... check out the "Wristlets vs Pocket Watches" thread I am just opening up. :D

john

[oldandgrumpy]

Good point made by the OP.

I feel the same way about Imperial measurement - I know what 6 foot looks like - 186 cm anybody ? :?


I felt incredibly pleased with a simple, old fashioned oven thermometer I bought recently - the cake still didn't work but that's more to do with the crap oven, not me or St. Delia :D

[gentlemenpreferhats]

<snip>.... I come from a culture that likes knives and as a youngster I was into knives and carrying a knife long before I was carrying a watch.

I think you live on an estate near me.

[gentlemenpreferhats]

"Soul" is an over-used term in the WISosphere and I still hesitate to apply it to objects. But, I do think that the sum of the mechanical parts give the machine some character by which I mean I can understand its rhythms and idiosyncracies. I think this applies to mechancials but also to some of my older quartz watches, which are simple enough for me to understand their workings.

I've never been into cars, but bicycles are the closest example I can think of in the real world which approach the same level of mechancial tactility and rhythm and create an understandable machine.

Christ, I'm boring myself now :|

[robcat]

Interesting that you should say so. I was there at the birth of quartz and I must say, I was as captivated by that technology, as I was with the mechanicals. For about ten years I went off mechanicals altogether ... (and somewhere in-there came the Accutrons too).

This is a good point as well. There was a time (mid 70's?) where quartz watches and digitals were cutting edge and unbelievably cool. They were also expensive IIRC. I may only have been young, but they were the ultimate gadget to me.

This is what I meant before - being a WIS is not simply an obsession with outdated technology.

[abraxas]

<snip>.... I come from a culture that likes knives and as a youngster I was into knives and carrying a knife long before I was carrying a watch.

I think you live on an estate near me.

Even in the UK I used to carry a knife in the sleeve pocket of my leather jacket until it became illegal. By the way I used to be biker ... and a knife is a very useful thing to carry, for all sorts of reasons. I never thought of using it on people, perhaps in defense, but it never happened.

By the way, I was brought up in Cyprus in the '60s, and a knife is very useful thing for cutting your fingers, I still have the scar from slicing my index with a bayonet. :roll:

john

[abraxas]

Interesting that you should say so. I was there at the birth of quartz and I must say, I was as captivated by that technology, as I was with the mechanicals. For about ten years I went off mechanicals altogether ... (and somewhere in-there came the Accutrons too).

This is a good point as well. There was a time (mid 70's?) where quartz watches and digitals were cutting edge and unbelievably cool. They were also expensive IIRC. I may only have been young, but they were the ultimate gadget to me.

This is what I meant before - being a WIS is not simply an obsession with outdated technology.

I was as excited by my first quartz in the '70s ... it was something like this and cost half a week's wages (£32) ... as I was about my spring drive, a few years back.

john

[VoleBoy]

I agree with a lot of the thoughts above. I read a very interesting feature recently about people who prefer vinyl records, developing their own photography film etc.

I work in IT and use a lot of modern technology but still own 1000s of vinyl record and much prefer flicking through papers and watching things on a TV, rather than consuming everything through a computer which seems to be very common these days.

[PreacherCain]

I am a reformed mechanical chauvinist, though I can't shake a deepseated preference for the achievement of tiny cogs and springs configured to measure time more-or-less accurately. Quartz was a tremendous technological achievement and the ubiquity of these movements and the relatively low cost of manufacture has rather obscured this, I feel. After all, quartz movements are popular precisely because they're accurate, robust and cheap to the point of being disposable - an impressive package, seen in isolation.

For me, I think it's got to do with the visible interaction of parts in a mechanical movement - I vastly prefer watches with display backs for precisely this reason (would make an exception for a PloProf or Heuer SuperPro, mind ;) ), you can actually see how the wheels mesh and the forces are transferred; I'm sure one of the reasons that most people (self included) feel a limited connection to quartz is that all the magic happens invisibly, inaudibly and without specialist equipment, imperceptibly. The electronics might as well be invisible magic goblins for all the sense they make to the Mark I human brain, whereas even a rank layman like me can see a mechanical movement ticking away.

[brownip]

This thread reminded me of an article I posted on previously (and shamelessly revivie here) by a chap called Robert Ryan in the Omega Lifetime magazine couple of years ago which really struck a chord with me.

He traces the world of mechanics from the earliest discovered highly complex precision instrument for tracking celestial time, the Antikythera Instrunment, right through to the pesent day. It's a fascinating read but there were a couple of short passages (paraphrased below) that neatly sum up to me why I love mechanical watches - in fact anything that involves the ingenious application of engineering on a human scale.

"I can appreciate the theoretical side of mecahnics, which deals with the very fabric of the universe but my heart lies with it's practical application. I would rather have a schematic of the Antikythera Instrunment on my wall than a reproduction of the Mona Lisa. I'm a fully paid up member of that generation brought up on cutaway drawings in boys comics, those graphic X Ray visions that laid bare the mechanical muscle and bone of Concord, Polaris Submarines, Apollo capsules and rockets. This infatuation with contraptions extends beyond the printed page."

and

"I am transfixed by it's elegance (he's referring to an old Leica M3 but it could equally apply to to any mechanical gadget) that sublime mating of form and function, by the precision engineering that can make the mechanism work with a mere whisper"

Having said all that my two most recent acquisitions have been vintage quartz watches, both of which represent to me the first steps into the digital age as consumer applications of concepts and technology that have quite literally transfomed the world and have a mixture of mechanical, electromagnetic and quartz technology inside them.

Of course the thrill of collecting, and the association of some watches with pivotal people and events in human history all add to it, but it's owning these mini masterpieces of engineering from whatever discipline that does it for me. And of course the fact that they look lurvely!

Cheers

Ian

[VoleBoy]

Found it. In retrospect, watches would have been a good addition to this.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/20...ng-digital-age

[Yorkshiremadmick]

[quote="abraxas"]

Somebody mentioned earlier about a similarity to mechanical camera's and film and that's how I feel.

I used to be a keen photographer in the past but with the onset of digital I lost all interest.

Interesting that you should say so. I was there at the birth of quartz and I must say, I was as captivated by that technology, as I was with the mechanicals. For about ten years I went off mechanicals altogether ... (and somewhere in-there came the Accutrons too).

Since the mechanical renaissance I see things much differently.

In general, the mechanism that "attaches you to things" is quite strong, and it will always find "something". I come from a culture that likes knives and as a youngster I was into knives and carrying a knife long before I was carrying a watch.

ME too, still carry knives, still love mechanical watches and still have two F1 Canon 35mm the original press one and later electronic. I use my iPhone now for photo's :cry:

[gentlemenpreferhats]

Found it. In retrospect, watches would have been a good addition to this.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/20...ng-digital-age

Typewriters! If only Olivetti had learned from Swatch- we could have had a typewriter renaissance.

[Neil.C]

Fully agree re the mechanical stuff.

I love mechanical movements and TBH I don't think I would have any interest in horology if everything was quartz.

Somebody mentioned earlier about a similarity to mechanical camera's and film and that's how I feel.

I used to be a keen photographer in the past but with the onset of digital I lost all interest.

Interesting that you should say so. I was there at the birth of quartz and I must say, I was as captivated by that technology, as I was with the mechanicals. For about ten years I went off mechanicals altogether ... (and somewhere in-there came the Accutrons too).

john

So was I john. I well remember a horological world without quartz.

I remember buying my first LED and thinking nothing could beat it even though I ran the pair of batteries down very quickly. :lol:

Then I saw the new LCD Seiko's in the shops and they became the best watches I had ever seen.

The Seiko LCD chrono cost me around £85 in the '70's which was a lot of money then. It later conked out and was consigned to the bin and I started seeing these old mechanical watches at boot sales for peanuts, people were chucking out that old fashioned technology.................and the rest is history. :wink:

[jason recliner]

all the magic happens invisibly, inaudibly and without specialist equipment, imperceptibly. The electronics might as well be invisible magic goblins for all the sense they make to the Mark I human brain

Funny, that is one of the things I love about quartz. I understand the oscillating crystal, but all the micro-processing afterwards is magical to me. I am thrilled by the little electro-gadgets packed into hermetically sealed compartments on my wrist, making my everyday life easier with their usefulness (or not!!!).

I still love mechanicals though, it is just a different fascination to me.

[abraxas]

Clocks and other medieval machines including mills
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gue35LODkzw

Clocks and their discovery
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpHHYZ4LQiE

Origins of mechanical clocks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ch1y9iPsas

The development of complex mechanical clocks and escapement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdLTUxx4xq8

The development of clock faces and objective time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEvkNS38GAg

The development of spring driven clock
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOdHlPTQPVA

Effects of the pocket watch in breaking up agrarian time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lr9D-JS_SM

* * *

Precision clock making and the personalization of time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9gMzY7pbZw

Machine tools for making clocks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_Hcwc-qerA

A clockmaker's shop as the pooling of many devices and skills
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IVXAwsWYeg

* * *

The spread of mechanical clocks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntJYLStiDRM

The symbolism of clocks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XkGvYyfX58

The escape from nature which clocks and machines gave
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUbEKzhM50Y

Grab a coffee and come back. :D

john

[spluurfg]

For me, part of the attraction is that it's 'pointless'. There's no practical rationale behind mechanical watches, given how well quartz watches perform, but in doing something just for the sake of it, it becomes art. And because it's become an art, it's perpetuated a craft which has existed for nearly a thousand years and would have been extinct if we had all been a little too practically minded. And there is something charming about the fact that something relatively unchanged over a few hundred years still works just fine.

[ColDaspin]

Bicycles? There'll always be a market for pedal power.

Exactly. And it's interesting to note the current trend/reversion towards steel among the CIS community.

I think the main reason for that is that people have realised the only benefits to aluminium and carbon fibre are their light weight, and if you can live with an extra 1-2kg of weight you can get something that will last longer and be more pleasant to ride. Or of course you can spend silly money and buy titanium, and get the best of both worlds 8) With bikes you've got an amazing range of possibilities when it comes to level of mechanical and electronic complexity. I know people who ride fixed gear bikes without brakes, at which point the only mechanics are a single chain drive, and a few ball bearings. At the other end of the scale, you've got the likes of the rohloff speedhub, an entire 14 gear, 500% range system in an hub

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7USVMrg5phY

Cars, despite the ubiquitous electronics, still have massive mechanical complexity too, as anyone who's ever worked on one and messed it up knows

Wow! Had seen the name Rohloff many times before but never gone to the effort to check it out. Looks amazing. How come the pros aren't using these - is it purely the slight weight disadvantage? The thought of never having to faff around with cassettes, derailleurs etc. again is pretty appealing. How has their reliability been?

Apologies to the OP for highjacking the thread!

[AstroBoy]

Another area where mechanical still reigns supreme...

Musical instruments... more particularly, classical music instruments.

Even the best electronic digital pianos such as Clavinova, marvellous as they are, simply cannot compare to the feel, response and sound from a concert Grand. Ditto electric violins vs Stradivarius.

Mechanical (acoustic) pianos, violins and cellos require tuning and regulating and tender loving care and have their own distinctive 'soul'...

Therefore I would contend that classical musical instruments are the last bastion of mechanical - not only aesthetically as a product of craftsmanship but also functionally - even more so than horology where, from a functional point of view, quartz or atomic clocks trump mechanical watches.

[tomkandy]

Wow! Had seen the name Rohloff many times before but never gone to the effort to check it out. Looks amazing. How come the pros aren't using these - is it purely the slight weight disadvantage? The thought of never having to faff around with cassettes, derailleurs etc. again is pretty appealing. How has their reliability been?

Apologies to the OP for highjacking the thread!

They're supposed to be amazingly reliable, there are stories of people doing 100,000km on them. They're almost de rigeur these days on wilderness expedition bikes. If I had the money, my touring bike would certainly have one - as it is I've had to settle for an Alfine 11, which is similar in design and spec, but much more affordable (£1000 for a complete bike vs > £2k for a decent rohloff equipped machine)

For racers though that extra kg, and a slight loss of efficiency versus a perfectly maintained derailleur system, is a big deal.

[ColDaspin]

Wow! Had seen the name Rohloff many times before but never gone to the effort to check it out. Looks amazing. How come the pros aren't using these - is it purely the slight weight disadvantage? The thought of never having to faff around with cassettes, derailleurs etc. again is pretty appealing. How has their reliability been?

Apologies to the OP for highjacking the thread!

They're supposed to be amazingly reliable, there are stories of people doing 100,000km on them. They're almost de rigeur these days on wilderness expedition bikes. If I had the money, my touring bike would certainly have one - as it is I've had to settle for an Alfine 11, which is similar in design and spec, but much more affordable (£1000 for a complete bike vs > £2k for a decent rohloff equipped machine)

For racers though that extra kg, and a slight loss of efficiency versus a perfectly maintained derailleur system, is a big deal.

Thanks. Hoping to put together a retro steel road bike shortly. "A perfectly maintained derailleur system" (and cassette) looks pretty sexy too. Food for thought ...

[LeonW]

I love my automatic watches and like OPs am fascinated about the movement parts ticking away. I talked about automatic watches so much at work that a colleague has recently 'converted' from wearing quartz watches and now owns his first automatic, a nice Omega speedmaster. I will convert them one by word :twisted:.

[dickbrowne]

My watches and bikes are all old, and that's the way I like 'em. If I buy a new one, it's going to look old - Pashley Guv'nor anyone? That was my last new purchase.



I also like to build my own, watches and bikes, normally from boxes of bits. I'm slightly more adventurous with the bikes as I know what I like and my engineering skills are fine at this level, but I'll happily buy a box of old bits claiming to be a watch and spend far more time than I should piecing it back together.





The thing that amuses me is the adoption of electronic gear-changing on bikes. Really? I mean, is it so important? Even at top pro level, is the extra weight, complexity and relatively lowered reliability overcome by the millisecond time saving on a gear change? It guess it must be, but I'm more amused by it's adoption by Joe Public. If you want an amusing 15 minutes, wander into your local bike shop and ask somebody with a bike equipped with electronic shifting "Why?"

[tomkandy]

If you want an amusing 15 minutes, wander into your local bike shop and ask somebody with a bike equipped with electronic shifting "Why?"

Regardless of what they're prepared to admit, the honest answer will be "because the pros have it". I think we're in a bit of a people-in-glass-houses position though when it comes to judging others on their frivolous purchases :lol:

[dickbrowne]

I think we're in a bit of a people-in-glass-houses position though when it comes to judging others on their frivolous purchases :lol:

Absolutely not, how very dare you, I wear each of my watches every single day. Ahem. :)

Agree totally with the reason for Joe Soap buying the electronic kit

[rfrazier]

Bicycles? There'll always be a market for pedal power.

Exactly. And it's interesting to note the current trend/reversion towards steel among the CIS community.

CIS community? Which community is that? (As always, I'm surfing on the very edge of trendiness. My bicycles are steel.)

Best wishes,
Bob

[dickbrowne]

I think that's CIS as in the latin prefix meaning "to be with" or something along those lines (it was a long time ago, school!). It suggests that the WIS is also with a bicycle

Of course, it could just be WIS spelt badly.

Or it could actually mean something. I'm no less in the dark than you Bob, it appears :)