Has eBay become a complete farce?

[flugzeit]

Maybe its just me, but I've come to the conclusion that watch auctions on eBay have become a complete farce. Here are a few trends I've noticed which now seem to be endemic:

(1) Watches which are 'sold' at auction only to reappear again for sale a few days or weeks later. One can often recognise the same watch being reincarnated many times in this way. Interestingly, as the watch gains these new lives it often appears with a starting bid (or 'buy it now' which is basically the same thing) at increasingly higher prices.

(2) I've been a losing bidder on many occasions where I had the feeling that the price was being run up by 'non genuine bidders' (to put it delicately) then, and this has happened increasingly, only to be contacted as losing bidder a few days later and asked if I'm interested in buying the watch post-auction, as the 'buyer' has pulled out. On a couple of occasions I've indicated my interest only to find that the price is not my losing bid price, or even the final auction price (set by that fickle highest bidder, with a remarkably thin eBay history), but at a random new price.

(3) The mysterious interest in a watch auction whereby in the first hours, or day, of an auction vigorous bidding takes the bid price from zero to, more or less, perceived fair value where it then sits for 6 or 9 days awaiting a few final bids which cannot but put the price over the top. To me, that can only be a 'sellers' strategy, because for any 'buyer' it makes no sense.

(4) The case of 'make an offer'. Except in rare cases, this feature of eBay auctions has become a 'buy it now' option, and sellers seem to reject any and all offers that are not within $10.00 of the 'buy it now' price.

(5) Finally, those pieces which all of us are familiar with. Many of them have now been on eBay for several years. You see them each time you do a search. They are often interesting watches or have a special status afforded them in the WIS blog-o-sphere. They only ever have a 'buy it now' price at a multiple of 100-300% of any actual sales of similar pieces.

-flugzeit

[jmarchitect]

I too have noticed the mysterious early bidding and then watches being re-listed at a BIN in excess of an earlier 'winning' price. Let's not beat around the bush and state that there are too many sellers who obviously employ friends/different IP addresses to put on a bidding show to falsely inflate the price. I guess the optimistic view is that there are still deals to be had, one only has to search harder. I tend towards the pessimistic view that the days of sensible deals on ebay are gone and will not buy another watch from ebay.

[Swissz]

Because of these reasons, I have given up selling or buying on Ebay.

[Neil.C]

I tend towards the pessimistic view that the days of sensible deals on ebay are gone and will not buy another watch from ebay.

I came to that conclusion years ago.

It was brilliant when it started but so many people are registered now it is a sellers market.

[Topcat30093]

I fully agree with you.

Recently I was following a Seiko on the site, only for the auction to have finished and hopefully the item sold, only for moments later a "Similar" watch to appear in it's place.

Also having been in correspondence with another forum member, I to now believe that I have been stung, by what is supposed to be a vintage piece, but is probably a cannibalised piece :(

[learningtofly]

I've almost given up on eBay as a source of watches; as the OP has mentioned, there's almost no point in making an offer, and most of what I've been looking at fails to reach it's BIN price and simply gets re-listed time and time again.

I thought I'd cracked it yesterday, having found what looked like a perfect example of one of my WTB's. With 16 hours to go, I emailed the seller, asking if the dial had been refinished and also asking for clarification of what might have been some markings on the sub-dials (although they could have been a trick of the light, hence the question). I got no response at all, and so couldn't bid - in the end it went for a price that was well within my budget.

[birdynamnam]

Ebay is an interesting place to see some models or make your opinion about current price.
I've not place a bid for a long time.
I may be tempted but only professionals sellers.

When I'm looking for something ,it's the sales corner I prefer.
The most important problem is to find reliable seller.

[Daveya.]

Ebay is still a useful place to bug stuff, you just need to know what you are doing, make sure you do your homework and put the time in. If you EBay quickly like we used to a few years ago, you will get burned.

It's still a great place for good buys, it just takes longer to find them.

[scrog10]

I have bought a few watches from the bay and have no problems. Though I always assume its fake unless proved otherwise before bidding.
I haven't really noticed the price hiking you mentioned but I'm sure it goes on.
What I have noticed is how many USA sellers are on there. I wish I could look without their results clogging up the pages. There is no way I would buy from outside the EU with all the tax and import troubles you could get along with the extra buying the seller risk.

[robcat]

I too have noticed the mysterious early bidding and then watches being re-listed at a BIN in excess of an earlier 'winning' price. Let's not beat around the bush and state that there are too many sellers who obviously employ friends/different IP addresses to put on a bidding show to falsely inflate the price. I guess the optimistic view is that there are still deals to be had, one only has to search harder. I tend towards the pessimistic view that the days of sensible deals on ebay are gone and will not buy another watch from ebay.

This is why I've become disillusioned with ebay. (This is for any item, not just watches BTW). There is far too much shill bidding going on - it's just not possible to police it. Duplicate accounts, suspicious "second chance offers" etc just mean you end up paying the maximum you are willing to go to, rather than simply outbidding the next best offer. If the seller/associate pushes his luck, he simply relists the item - even though it was "sold".

Also the amount of counterfeit stuff is frightening (especially DVD's etc).

[gray]

In the last 5 years I've bought one watch by bidding on eBay. It's just not what it once was. at one time I'd buy stuff literally weekly/monthly too.

I do use eBay auctions for other stuff and regularly BIN bits and bobs once research informs me it's a good deal.

[heuerkane]

There's good and bad sellers. I Still give it a go now and then as Sometimes a bargain pops up.

[unclealec]

I now use eBay for clearing out stuff that I'm not over bothered about the final price, I just want rid.
A couple of watches I dispatched that way recently were both bought through SC - a Camel Trophy (Land Rover) watch and a Seiko Avenue. Both sold for within a fiver of what I paid. Both buyers happy; as was I.
Don't think I'd trust it with higher end deals though. I'm much happier with the scrupulous honesty and generosity of our wonderful SC population.

[stuie-t]

What I have noticed is how many USA sellers are on there. I wish I could look without their results clogging up the pages. There is no way I would buy from outside the EU with all the tax and import troubles you could get along with the extra buying the seller risk.

You can filter your search results to only show items located in the UK - it is usually one of the last filter options on the left hand side when the search results come up.

[paulyg]

I've bought and sold a lot on eBay, and every time I do I'm drawn away from it unless it's buying from genuine 'shops' on there... It's definitely not the place it used to be and therefore I hardly ever look on there anymore.

[Chartman69]

Ebay is a great shop window and that is about it my friends :? I always put my number to discuss the item I am selling, with the fee's they charge its much better to try and sell F2F off Ebay once you have a serious looking buyer.

[Foxy100]

I've bought a few watches on ebay. I've already mentioned it TZ but three of my favourite watches came from ebay: two Autavias and a Seamaster. The rules for me are simple, never buy anything new, get into a bidding war or bid on anything with a lot of interest shown in it, I don't know much about or where the brand is so well known a seller simply can't not know what it is (like a Submariner). Any watch I buy will need a full service and probably a certain amount of restoration or number of new parts. In the case of my three favourite watch buys, all three needed an immediate service (I don't bother wearing a new purchase from the 'bay, it goes straight off for a full service) and they all needed some restoration work. You have to budget for the work and therefore the only good buys for me are ones which look a bit knackered but are as original as possible, preferably with original bracelet. The worst case scenario is that after purchase price, VAT (the best deals seem to come from the US), service and a certain amount of restoration/replacement parts the watch is worth market value on SC or similar BUT with the peace of mind that the watch is fully serviced and under guarantee.

As an example, I bought the Seamaster below from US ebay. Customs charged me about £90 and a full service including a new crystal and one or two other bits came to £230. Not telling you the purchase price but I'd say it all comes in under market value. I had the choice of sending it off for a full Bienne or to leave all the wear and tear on it. The original brushing on the case is still all there and it feels so nice to wear that I decided to keep it as is albeit with new crystal):





My Siffert purchase has already been documented on here. There are really good bargains out there, you just have to be careful about it.

[soapy]

i have never bought a watch on ebay for all the reasons above.
i also disagree with people using ebay to judge values on anything.

[Redd]

(3) The mysterious interest in a watch auction whereby in the first hours, or day, of an auction vigorous bidding takes the bid price from zero to, more or less, perceived fair value where it then sits for 6 or 9 days awaiting a few final bids which cannot but put the price over the top. To me, that can only be a 'sellers' strategy, because for any 'buyer' it makes no sense.

When I spot a watch I'm interested in (however long its been for sale for) I will often put in a reasonably (not maximum) high bid to shake out any bargain hunters and/or judge if its going to over my budget. Nothing mysterious about doing this as I'd rather know early if its likely to go to high and forget about it.

[jpjsavage]

It is a very risky business! Caveat emptor

[vinvalilo]

I also have given up buying on Ebay. There are too many friends commited together for artificial sales ...

[tangs]

ebay is very hit and miss..i always use use my 15sec rule, i never put in a bid on anything before 15secs short of the auction ending time..if the price is over what i want to pay by this time i walk away!

there are tactics use by sellers to bump up prices such as 'friend bidding' but at the end of the day it is unregulated and it is an auction site, and most people do not emply this method, so i can live with that, like i said if i goes over a price im willing to pay, i walk away, simple

i am on ebay weekly looking for bits i need/want, whether it car parts, fishing gear, watches, etc..there are plenty of deals to be had, that goes without saying!

[ROBANNENAGY]

I've had a lot of great deals on Ebay and a few bad deals, but on balance its pretty good. Most of the good deals I've had were from Germany, all of the bad deals were from the USA.

[scooter]

I've bought 3 watches off Ebay.

A 1940's art deco Wittnauer. It stopped soon after purchase. I emailed the sender in Sussex who told me to send it back. He returned it in full working order having sent it to his watchmaker.

I bought a 1913 Waltham photocase pocket watch from an American seller with a tremendous feedback. I broke the dial within days and whilst I managed to get a new one locally, we shared several emails on the subject. He came over as a great guy.

I bought a 1940's Gruen 14k solid gold with original box. Great transaction.

Maybe I've been lucky I know but write as you find.

scooter

[tixntox]

You win some, you lose some. There are good and bad folks on there. Just do your homework, decide on a price and stick to it. I've only had one bad watch and it was my own fault. (Last minute buy without checking out the sellers stats). Lesson learned! :roll:

[PreacherCain]

A curate's egg, IME. I tend to buy much more often than I sell (get me, with my 20-odd transaction history) as I see much more risk in being a seller. If I buy something that's materially misdescribed or otherwise unsatisfactory, I have the option of restitution via PayPal, even if it does take ages. As a seller, the opportunities for being scammed rotten are legion, and I only do it when I have to. Case in point: I auctioned my PRS-14 last night - the winning bidder contacted me straight away to say he doesn't actually have the money to pay for it as he is waiting for a cheque to clear... Alarm bells are now ringing, and I am going to make sure the payment is properly cleared into my account before I send anything anywhere. Basically, selling stuff seems to be a PITA.

[lewie]

I am in the market for an SMP,fuled by this site :evil: but looking on ebay it has started to put me off, there are many on there that dont look right or reappear wee3k after week, its kind of put me off buying one and taken the edge off of it :cry:

[EdRonax]

I used to be quite active on eBay a while back but have got feed up with it of late and hardly bother, that said there's still the occasional good deal to be had.

[walkerwek1958]

Ebay is a great shop window and that is about it my friends :? I always put my number to discuss the item I am selling, with the fee's they charge its much better to try and sell F2F off Ebay once you have a serious looking buyer.

+1....a sensible approach. I`m sure a lot of people do this, particularly on the expensive watches. I`ve bought a couple of times like this and had some nice purchases.

Lots of the vintage Omegas are now seriously overpriced, put up for sale by dealers.

It ain't the place it used to be :(

Paul

[walkerwek1958]

I am in the market for an SMP,fuled by this site :evil: but looking on ebay it has started to put me off, there are many on there that dont look right or reappear wee3k after week, its kind of put me off buying one and taken the edge off of it :cry:

Hang in there....something will crop up. Not everything on ebay is rubbish.

Patience, man, patience :)

Paul

[walkerwek1958]

i also disagree with people using ebay to judge values on anything.

Surely looking at ebay completed deals is a fair way to assess values?.........I take the asking prices with a pinch of salt.

Paul

[The Hack]

Agreed - Ebay has become a bit of a joke and for a lot of products it's the equivalent of buying counterfeit cr@p from those hawkers who walk up and down beaches in the Summer.

It does work for some people of course, but those will soon become the minority.

[carlotzuk]

I think that the only way to take ebay is to consider it one of many other sources. Meaning one can compare the prices, shipping, conditions, etc. from several locations and include e-bay and then get what is more affordable or better in terms of deal.

I never bought a watch on e-bay but prefer buying mine from watch forums since there is a higher percentage of trust that I can put in watch forums deals compared to e-bay even if the watch is not new.

That said, I did buy a couple of items off e-bay and have been mostly happy. But there was one item that was advertised as something which was in reality only an Asian made knock off and not the real thing. Still OK and got a discount from the seller, but that kind of smothered my enthusiasm for this market.

[Daveya.]

eBay is now a great resource in valuing second hand goods

[dtc2]

ebay is full of chancers and low lifes now. It used to be a far better place in the past to wheel and deal.

I used to enjoy ebay a lot but now just dabble.

[lewie]

I am in the market for an SMP,fuled by this site :evil: but looking on ebay it has started to put me off, there are many on there that dont look right or reappear wee3k after week, its kind of put me off buying one and taken the edge off of it :cry:

Hang in there....something will crop up. Not everything on ebay is rubbish.

Patience, man, patience :)

Paul

Thats what i keep telling myself

[watch.aholic]

I've bought a lot of stuff from ebay including watches but they were mostly Seikos and that too from online shops selling through ebay or professional sellers selling new watches....It's become a bad bad place now and trusting my money to someone selling on ebay has become difficult now.....Lots of crooks out their waiting to strike.

[Routers]

Had a few great deals and also a few mediocre.
Only one that really went bad, and as a buyer Paypal were on my side and refunded me.
In recent years just been buying as I think sellers get a rough deal.
Also can't understand why anyone would sell expensive watches there with the rip-off Ebay and PayPal charges.
I still look for bargains and have had some spectacular ones.
Do your homeworks and fix your upper limit and stick to it.
I've seen lots go above what I will pay, so I just walk away and wait for the next one.

Ian.

[markrlondon]

(3) The mysterious interest in a watch auction whereby in the first hours, or day, of an auction vigorous bidding takes the bid price from zero to, more or less, perceived fair value where it then sits for 6 or 9 days awaiting a few final bids which cannot but put the price over the top. To me, that can only be a 'sellers' strategy, because for any 'buyer' it makes no sense.

I have to say that this one seems completely normal. It's because the beginning and ends of an auction are the most exciting times and, for better or worse, most people bid in an excited and emotionally-driven frame of mind.

People bid at the beginning of an auction to 'get their bid in' (not logical but emotional) or because it looks like they might get a bargain (not logical but emotional). The bidding naturally hits a fair (i.e. reasonable but non-bargain level) and dies down.

Them the auction nears its end and people who really want the item decide to bid a little more and a little more. Also some people only bid at the end, either manually or using sniping software. And if they want the item then they have to bid higher.

It should be noted that this double-ended frenzy effect usually only occurs on genuinely desirable items (or at least items that are perceived to be desirable on an emotional basis). It's not universal.

In short, I think it's mostly genuine. It's just a reflection of human nature.

(4) The case of 'make an offer'. Except in rare cases, this feature of eBay auctions has become a 'buy it now' option, and sellers seem to reject any and all offers that are not within $10.00 of the 'buy it now' price.

Agreed, this really really annoys me. Why bother with asking for offers if you're not going to consider them. BIN is more appropriate and, unlike reserves, won't put off genuine wouldbe buyers.

(5) Finally, those pieces which all of us are familiar with. Many of them have now been on eBay for several years. You see them each time you do a search. They are often interesting watches or have a special status afforded them in the WIS blog-o-sphere. They only ever have a 'buy it now' price at a multiple of 100-300% of any actual sales of similar pieces.

Hehe, indeed. It amuses me when people just won't reduce the price.

[markrlondon]

Also can't understand why anyone would sell expensive watches there with the rip-off Ebay and PayPal charges.

Lots of people aren't forum-oriented and just want to sell simply and easily, as they see it. They may never visit forums at all.

Also you have to choose your forum carefully when it comes to selling certian types of watch. Sometimes you can get a much better price (even taking eBay and PayPal fees into account) by selling on eBay than on forums. This is true for £50 watches through to £3000 watches (and no doubt beyond). Forums are very choosy and faddish (to put it bluntly) where eBay, despite its problems and costs, has an international market that no specialist forum can match (not even the likes of WUS or Timezone).

[TomGW]

A few years ago I bought quite a few decent watches on Ebay, including a Moonwatch (3 or 4 weeks old), minty Tudor chrono silver panda dial, still in warranty (£460), Heuer Carrera reissue (LBNIB), MKii Speedy etc. These were all seriously good value but the only think that I've bought recently was a decent Auatavia. I have practically given up trying to buy any watch on Ebay these days as it doesn't seem worth the hassle.

[Bloobird]

I got a great deal on a Seiko recently - the photo's weren't great but the seller looked kosher and so I put in a cheeky last minute bid. I'd have been perfectly satisfied if what had turned up in the post was a bit scabby, based on what I paid, but it was far better than I expected and came with a spare (brand new) bezel insert too, which wasn't mentioned anywhere in the ad.

I also did a very good deal on a PRS-18 some time ago (with a guy who turned out to be a member here!)

That said, if either deal had gone sour it wouldn't have been ruinously expensive and I certainly wouldn't risk big money on an Ebay purchase without loads of due diligence.

And having said all that, I made another low-value buy at the weekend (drunkenly on this occasion...) and there is some messing about pending with Paypal addresses, so I may yet turn out third time unlucky!

[huytonman]

Its easy to form negative conclusions about Ebay but if you are sensible and dont go in the with mindset of "i'll get something cheap" then you can still buy and sell succesfully. I bought a watch last week which was painless, the guy accepted my "offer" and when it arrived it was exactly as described and what i was expecting. It wasnt a whole lot of money and i did pay through paypal for added protection. Ive also bought expensive watches but only after engaging personally with the seller and in most cases meeting (in a public place!) to do the handover - so far not once have I been burnt after 11 years or trading.

[davestrong]

Its easy to form negative conclusions about Ebay but if you are sensible and dont go in the with mindset of "i'll get something cheap" then you can still buy and sell succesfully. I bought a watch last week which was painless, the guy accepted my "offer" and when it arrived it was exactly as described and what i was expecting. It wasnt a whole lot of money and i did pay through paypal for added protection. Ive also bought expensive watches but only after engaging personally with the seller and in most cases meeting (in a public place!) to do the handover - so far not once have I been burnt after 11 years or trading.

I agree. I try to keep the value of purchases low so that, if it does go wrong, I am not too much out of pocket. Unlike others I have tended to buy from private sellers after checking their feedback and what else they are selling. I never buy if the feedback is less than 100% and always use PayPal. The feedback model is terrific and, although open to some abuse, can normally be checked out by looking at what has been bought and sold, by whom andover what peeiod of time. I have built up a small collection of junghans mega 1 watches, mostly from german ebay, and have not been dealt a dud yet. I enjoy the "thrill of the auction" and trying different bidding techniques. I always set a limit and never exceed it. There will be another deal along! Ebay is better than gambling sites and you have a much better chance of getting a good return. For small scale hobby purchases it is brilliant. For anything of great value I wouldn't touch it witha barge pole!

[kamo]

Same as one of previous posters I am on the market for a SMP. I have been now for over a year i should say. No luck. Deals used to be easier to come by when i started using the bay 8 years ago. BIN/Make offer items are ridiculously expensive.
Yet, as a good addict i still search for my deal and i believe i will find it. Patience is the key and also the control to not rush things for the sake of "getting it".

[Neil.C]

Lots of the vintage Omegas are now seriously overpriced, put up for sale by dealers.

It ain't the place it used to be :(

Paul

Yep.

About 12 years ago I used to bid $61 on US vintage Omegas ( about £40 then ) and ninety percent of the time I'd win them.

I bought dozens.

Silly prices now.

[RJM25R]

I think eBay is still great place but you have to work harder to find real bargain....

[TheFlyingBanana]

eBay have ruined their watch category in my opinion.

A huge proportion are now listed as Buy It Now sales with ludicrous prices, and no opportunity to actually bid on them in an auction.

In addition, many sellers, including one particularly annoying German one, now list cheap new watches as "used" in an attempt to get more interest from the used category. I've emailed eBay but of course they take no action.

I still have a look for more unusual watches, but rarely ever buy these days as prices are too high, and genuine auctions are now becoming a rarity.

I have said many times, eBay is a perfect example of a total monopoly gone bad. Their charges are astronomical - effectively 20% when you take into account listing fees, final valuation at a flat 10%, and paypal charges.

The time is right for a major competitor to emerge - someone like Virgin should launch a true auction site. I believe many ebayers would happily defect.

[flugzeit]

The time is right for a major competitor to emerge - someone like Virgin should launch a true auction site. I believe many ebayers would happily defect.

Whoo Ho... Sir Richard to the rescue... :lol:

(Actually, that is really good suggestion!)

-flugzeit

[davestrong]

I agree that the charges to sellers are extortionate and that a serious competitor would be good for the market. At least 10% of most "ending now" values for watches as they click over, then for all categories, then for all countries with ebay sites: must look up their annual turnover if you can find the figures!