Reply With QuoteSeen this many times and all it tells me is form 1970-1990 saw huge rises which have calmed down a lot in comparison to 1990-2010 - but still people are complaining and saying how affordable Rolex use to be!
It is in dollars and due to evolution in the different exchange rates this cannot be converted into GBP or Euros without the historical echange rates.
It shows the price development nicely though so enjoy :!:
http://www.minus4plus6.com/PriceEvolution.htm
Seen this many times and all it tells me is form 1970-1990 saw huge rises which have calmed down a lot in comparison to 1990-2010 - but still people are complaining and saying how affordable Rolex use to be!
It's just a matter of time...
Well yes, they were expensive watches in the late sixties but they wére more affordable.Originally Posted by Omegamanic
Here some US data from 1974;
Average Cost of new house $34,900.00
Average Income per year $13,900.00
Average Monthly Rent $185.00
Cost of a gallon of Gas 55 cents
Average cost new car$3,750.00
Samsonite Case $62.00
In 1974 US the Rolex sub cost 6 Samsonite cases, two month´s of rent, one tenth of a new car and 1,5 weeks of salary.
A key thing to bear in mind is that the Rolex of the mid seventies is basically the same thing as present one. Yes. it has improved but it has seen less change in engine and chassis in 4 decennia than the Volkswagen Golf from one generation to the next.
The price has increased both absolute and relative for the same spec. and technology.
This is not just Rolex but, albiet less extreme, also true for other luxury mechanical Swiss watches.
They have become relatively more expensive for basically the same thing as 4 decennia ago.
The Lada Niva is a neat parallel. That was introduced in de mid seventies, is still for sale and has only been adapted to quite more stringent regulations. It has about doubled in price.
Things like a gas stove, fridge or freezer produce other paralles. These have become relatively chéaper. You can buy 10 highest eco rating 90 cm. freezers for the price of the Roles Sub. today.
Have a look at the Volkswagen Golf. That was introduced in 1974.
How many new Rolex subs could you buy for a MkI in ´74 an how many buys a 2011 Volkswagen Golf 1.8?
Again remember that the ´74 MkI is a vastly different vehicle.
This is a visual representation of the evolution of the Golf:
http://thefoxisblack.com/dwpimages/phil ... 80x800.jpg
Simplest of all; how many Samsonite basic duralite hardside cases is the 2011 Rolex sub?
This data is only useful if you can compare it to Omega and (say) Hamilton over the same period.
otherwise it's value is reduced other than as an indication of how disposable income must have increased over the period in question. You'd also need data on units sold per year to get a full picture.
This is because they were actually more affordable, or rather, remained as affordable. In the 1970s and to a lesser extent the 1980s, there was significant wage inflation. In the last 15 years there has been very little. And in the UK, VAT has doubled to 20% since its launch at 10% in 1973.
Also, Rolexes would be cheaper than they are now - but for the fact that the Swiss franc has doubled in value against sterling in the last 8 or 9 years.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Data will only ever be available for Rolex, and no mistake ;).
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
All a bit of a so what really - if you want to make a comparision why not use petrol or computers as an example. Petrol would have gone up much more - computers would have gone down (like failing off a cliff)
Rolex (etc) prices are driven by
Cost of raw materials (have you seen the price of gold recently)
Labour Costs
Cost of Money
Exchange Rates
Tax and Duty
R&D (also see Labour/raw materials, etc)
Maketting and other overheads.
What the market will stand.
Whilst their labour costs might have gone down, their expenditure on new plant and machines would have gone up.
However when all said and done my first Rolex (purchased in 1981) cost me about 2X my monthly salary, however now a new GMT C would cost me about 0.8 of my monthly salary - therefore from my perspective they are less expensive. :D
FYI my first Rolex (16750) purchased for £325 would now be worth at least 10X more than I paid for it not a bad (tax free) return on investment I suppose. However had I bought the 1655 i looked at for the same money my investment would now be worth 20X what I would have paid for it :( . The Daytona which I also put back (because it did not have a date) would be would 40X what it would have cost.
Andy
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
End of Thread.
Almost :wink:End of Thread.
Gray
Do you need any staff? Or a chauffeur?
That sums it up nicely Vicky.Do you need any staff? Or a chauffeur?
0.8 of a far from above average monthly salary.
It was 0.25 of the quite a bit lowere average US paycheck.
You get the same result looking at the equivalent in Samsonite cases.
As was observed the reason is the customer acceptance.
That again sums it up.
The price development has nothing to do with cost or the product itself. Only with the perception of the product.
The price development from the mid sixties, when the Rolex prices was based on the product quality; cost + margin, represents the development of image.
As it is what the market as a worldwide whole supports, the moaners appearantly are not the targeted high earning customers.
That is not a problem but rather the intention, the strategy to nurture the exclusivity.
The harder wis moan about the price the more desirable the ´Rolex´ badge becomes.
They promote/support the marketing strategy. It is like a perpetuum mobile!
A price development like this based on the same product by building image is nothing short of bríljant marketing.
The price development illustrates the development of the perceived added value.
There is no doubt that the buyer gets value for money. It is irrelevant wether the physical product of the intangible ´added brand value´ is the bulk of that value.
It is a fáscinating phenomena.
LOL! :lol:
I hope you never change, Cilla.
It doesn't. It just means I want a better paid job.That sums it up nicely Vicky.Do you need any staff? Or a chauffeur?
A tool car too even.LOL! :lol:
I hope you never change, Cilla.
The Niva stayed a tool, the Sub became something else.
That is why the Niva only doubled in price and the Sub gained multitudes in added value :idea:
That sums it up nicely Vicky.Do you need any staff? Or a chauffeur?
Sorry I did not mean it to come across like that.
0.8 of a far from above average monthly salary.
It was 0.25 of the quite a bit lowere average US paycheck.
You get the same result looking at the equivalent in Samsonite cases.
As was observed the reason is the customer acceptance.
That again sums it up.
The price development has nothing to do with cost or the product itself. Only with the perception of the product.
The price development from the mid sixties, when the Rolex prices was based on the product quality; cost + margin, represents the development of image.
As it is what the market as a worldwide whole supports, the moaners appearantly are not the targeted high earning customers.
That is not a problem but rather the intention, the strategy to nurture the exclusivity.
The harder wis moan about the price the more desirable the ´Rolex´ badge becomes.
They promote/support the marketing strategy. It is like a perpetuum mobile!
A price development like this based on the same product by building image is nothing short of bríljant marketing.
The price development illustrates the development of the perceived added value.
There is no doubt that the buyer gets value for money. It is irrelevant wether the physical product of the intangible ´added brand value´ is the bulk of that value.
It is a fáscinating phenomena.
Totally agree with your comment "That is not a problem but rather the intention, the strategy to nurture the exclusivity".
However it true to say than in some respectives of the rights or wrongs of this a vast number of companies try to pull this stunt, mostly without success. Notable exceptions being the likes of Mercedes Benz (who manage to charge £20K+ for a A series FFS!!), LV (who can charge over 1K for a plastic and leather handbag), Ventu (who can charge £5K for a fancy blackberry and an answering service), etc.
As long as the market exists and people are prepared to pay over the top for exclusivity then we will have these bubbles. At the end of the day it down to the individual as to whether they want/need to buy these products or not. There is no right or wrong about it - it just is.
For me this is perhaps the reason I tend to focus on vintage (old) rather than new. My 5513 for example was made in 1967 and was made at a time when Rolex were only making 2-300K watches a year in fact since the start of the company my watch was the 178501* off the line. My 1990 911 was made at a time when Porsche were only making 50K's cars a year and is one of 34,000 ever produced. Now they make over 1,000,000. So to me these are much more "exclusive" than the modern offerings.
Andy
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Now that WOULD have been cool 8) .A tool car too even.LOL! :lol:
I hope you never change, Cilla.
The Niva stayed a tool, the Sub became something else.
That is why the Niva only doubled in price and the Sub gained multitudes in added value :idea:
James Bond Wearing his Kingston, oops, sorry, Rolex, chasing villains in his Lada Niva :lol: .
I reckon the Niva would have the same status as the Rollie by now :) .
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
´Exclusive´ = Excluding or tending to exclude, excluding some or most.
How, why on what criteria is irrelevant.
A crucial condition is that there must be a wide enough (potential) demand to be excluding a part.
It does not matter how large the supply is as long as the excluding criteria still apply to a large enough suurplus demand.
This is why even close to a million watches per year can still be exclusive
It has all to do with desireabiliy, nóthing with rarity.
In the case of Rolex it is the image of expensive luxury that both excludes and enforces desirability.
The brilliance is the detaching from the physical product, adding an intangible component as the desired added value.
When Hayek launched the Swiss mechanical as a luxury product, Rolex was already well established as a quality product among those based on an already fairly intangible image.
Hayek made the product desireable, created the bulk demand and Rolex added their superlative quality brand image to that, making them desireable among mass produced Swiss mechanicals.
The bulk demand made that they coúld exclude more by raising their price thus enforcing the exclusive image making it even more desireable.
At present they have a growth marked in East Asia adding more bulk demand, a price excluding míllions and making it :shock: desireable on that market.
It means they have less supply in the west which means a larger gap with even deminished demand because of more excluding prices
At the moment they have even móre of a winner than ever.
Ae you sure he is not driving the Lada 210x in one of the many ´eastern block´ episodes?
At present the Lada plant is pumping out Chevrolets and the SY Korando is now produced in Russia as a more modern affordable can-do competitor/successor for the phased out Niva.
There ís a 8) realistic chase with Jacky Chan in a Korando Cabrio. Typical Chan humour included.
No doubt a future Bond will go Russian agaín so we may see Bond in Chen´s footsteps even.
No doubt nót doing his own stunts though.
I have to thank "clitoris" for his information about Rolex prices evolution. Very usefull.
I have a feeling something is wrong with my post !!!!!.
Pedro
Well yes, they were expensive watches in the late sixties but they wére more affordable.
Here some US data from 1974;
Average Cost of new house $34,900.00
Average Income per year $13,900.00
Average Monthly Rent $185.00
Cost of a gallon of Gas 55 cents
Average cost new car$3,750.00
Samsonite Case $62.00
In 1974 US the Rolex sub cost 6 Samsonite cases, two month´s of rent, one tenth of a new car and 1,5 weeks of salary.
A key thing to bear in mind is that the Rolex of the mid seventies is basically the same thing as present one. Yes. it has improved but it has seen less change in engine and chassis in 4 decennia than the Volkswagen Golf from one generation to the next.
The price has increased both absolute and relative for the same spec. and technology.
This is not just Rolex but, albiet less extreme, also true for other luxury mechanical Swiss watches.
They have become relatively more expensive for basically the same thing as 4 decennia ago.
The Lada Niva is a neat parallel. That was introduced in de mid seventies, is still for sale and has only been adapted to quite more stringent regulations. It has about doubled in price.
Things like a gas stove, fridge or freezer produce other paralles. These have become relatively chéaper. You can buy 10 highest eco rating 90 cm. freezers for the price of the Roles Sub. today.
Have a look at the Volkswagen Golf. That was introduced in 1974.
How many new Rolex subs could you buy for a MkI in ´74 an how many buys a 2011 Volkswagen Golf 1.8?
Again remember that the ´74 MkI is a vastly different vehicle.
This is a visual representation of the evolution of the Golf:
http://thefoxisblack.com/dwpimages/phil ... 80x800.jpg
Simplest of all; how many Samsonite basic duralite hardside cases is the 2011 Rolex sub?
My point was the increase in the 20 years to 1990 - not how cheap they were in 1974.
The increase as slowed down - anyway they are much cheaper for me than they ever have been.
It's just a matter of time...
Our debate from May last year with price update at bottom 8)
Huertecilla wrote:
TKH wrote:
rolex vfm if you factor in residuals and sheer build quality
Residuals when bought new? You will have to calculate that for me.
Take a 14060M. New price versus say 4 years later, average daily use, so definite signs ofwear and the odd scratch though no real dents nor damage.
How much depreciation would that be? The watch will still be worth a lot of money but one will have written off a considerable sum too.
By all means calculate both % and actual amount. Percentage wise Rolex does pretty well but in actual coins not so good at all.
You can buy a luxury alternative for the amount lost. Ok, one can argue wether that ís an alternative but that would then be about the perceived value again.
I can understand buying a 6 y.o. and reselling at about no loss 2 years later. That is reatining residual value. However...
This is nothing thát special. Many, mány watches can be bought that would give this result. Being worth a lot less they would cost you that much less in loss of return on your investment in the watch so be more economical
Ok will try to calculate for you
Rolex October 2004 price list
14060 Sumbariner list price (pre discount) £ 1'970 value now £ 2'200 approx
16600 Sea Dweller list price (pre discount) £ 2'440 value now £ 3'000 approx
16610 Submariner list price (pre discount) £ 2'350 value now £ 2'700 approx
16710 GMT Master II list price (pre discount) £ 2'350 value now £ 2'700 approx
service costs not factored in but they aren't for any brands mentioned
but you have to agree NO amount lost which is nice
June 2011 update
14060 £2800
16600 £ 3800+
16610 £3200+
16710 £ 3000+
Gotta love them Rolex
Thanks for the update.
The ´value´ is not the issue :idea: It is very real. No discussion about it.
The historic development illustrates what makes up that value.
The only issue with Tulip Trade on image is not much of a risc in the light of the new large growth market.
It is rather funny that the residual value, the investment aspect, is such a strong selling point for a watch that advertises the image of having it made :mrgreen:
Hence GP says a lot more, both about wis-dom and affluance of the buyer :idea:
How much was a 14060 in 1996?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1485580 took 10sec to google your exact question. And this post brings back ghosts from Xmas past!
Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 4th December 2016 at 20:30.
Yeah. Saw that before I posted USD price is listed in a few references but not GBP.
I guess it was around £1500
From the same ref:My 14060 cost £1680 in late 1998, have the original receipt from when it was purchased new.
HTH
Yeah ... I saw that too but it was not clear if that was a discounted or list purchase ...
Anyone know the GBP list price of a 14060 in 1998?
Is there any complex UK/EU data available anywhere?
My July 1996 UK price list shows the 14060 at £1,730.
My September 2000 UK price list shows it at £1,730.
Not one to take risks, but I'd wager £2 the RRP in 1998 was something like £1,730.
Haywood
I can't vouch for the accuracy of it, but this thread (and previous iterations) might be useful : https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=471020
Personally I would always try to go directly to the source and where possible retrieve the original price list in paper or (latterly) Excel spreadsheet form.
Haywood
Thanks for the link, unfortunately the previous one (2015) was already deleted, so no historical UK data.
You think it'd be accessible through Rolex UK?
What do you wish to know ?
If you ask here there is often a serious geek available with the right resources willing to stop work for a minute and look up your answer...
H
They're probably all too busy counting all the money gathered in from the sale of sans-cyclops Sea Dwellers :-)
I'm rather after a spreadsheet than a specific price for a specific watch and I thought something like that already exists, but I can't find it anywhere.
I was thinking about to prepare a wiz in Tableau, but for that I'd need some data...
Thanks for reminding me
I'm afraid my English is poor: you are considering urinating on a table?
It's a visualisation software mainly used for business purposes to analyse data.
I've found one watch related article (unfortunately not in english) where it was used just to give an idea:
http://mydatanews.blogspot.co.uk/201...s-de-luxe.html
If I'd have some data I could prepare something, which could be useful (or at least interesting) for others as well.
What do you wish to know ?
If you ask here there is often a serious geek available with the right resources willing to stop work for a minute and look up your answer...
H
That needs a key which tells you which line is what model.
... and of course an X axis scale which I assume is years.
I have fallen short and promise to try harder next time !
The X-axis is indeed years and the models were a range of those which had done no more than evolved in linear fashion throughout the period. When I dig out my original Excel spreadsheet I can confirm, but from memory I took a 14000 / 14000M Air-King, bicolour Datejusts with plain / diamond dials 69173/79173/179173 and 16233/116233, classic 18ct Day-Date 18238/83858 / 118238/83208, Pearlmaster 69298/80298, steel Sub. Date 16610 and a couple of others, trying to establish a fair spread of models, materials and gem-setting.
Haywood
MUCH appreciated anyway!!
Simply thank you.
Good man, it wasn't intended to criticise; it would only be a 2 second job in excel; you have already done all the hard work in compiling the data ...
If you'd share that spreadsheet with me, I'd appreciate it.
Also contacted Rolex, we'll see if they want to cooperate on this.
I expect it would be easier to walk a giraffe safely onto a helicopter*, frankly.
As for the data, what is the purpose of your project? Just general interest?
* without stopping the rotor.
Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 24th March 2017 at 14:00.
I thought it's worth a question at least and who knows, maybe I get lucky.
And basically yes, as something like that doesn't exist and could be interesting for others.
Also I'll try to add some other facts, like min wage at the time and compare the changes in % or time differences between movement upgrades...etc
"Unfortunately we do not have such data available for public use, so I am afraid we will be unable to assist on this occasion."
No surprise here; why would Rolex be interested in anything other than their current pricing strategies?
Best thing I've read all day!
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