Gibson Les Paul junior....anybody got one?

[Neil.C]

With my recent guitar renaissance caused by a thread on here :roll: :lol: I have been bashing away rather unconvincingly at my old USA Strat.

I used to have a LP Custom back in the mists of time but must admit I found them quite bulky and would prefer a flat top which leads to me to the Junior or Junior special and as my playing veers towards the Clash, Velvet Underground style :lol: I think a junior could be a suitable fit.

They seem to be available at very low prices (around £650) and I have yet to make up my mind so perhaps some folk can share their experience?

[Crazytrain]

I'd say a junior would be a great fit. But.... The current cheap Gibson's aren't all that great IMHO. Some can be, but the finish and build quality is hit and miss at best. The real cheap ones have very little in the way of finishing / laquer / polish etc.
I have 2 cheap modern Gibson Les Pauls, one older standard that is much better and then a whole bunch of licenced and unlicensed Japanese LP's. Being as objective as I can all of my Japanese guitars are at least as good as my best Gibson!
One of the best being my only junior, an epiphone Japan sunburn. (epi Japan are more modern versions of the older Orville guitars and have the 'proper' Gibson headstock.)
My recommendation would be first an MIJ junior and second an older Gibson. If you are really tempted by the new cheaper ones then buying online is total lottery on quality, best to try and then buy one that plays well in a shop.....

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

[Omegary]

Never played a LP Junior but I've got a Gordon Smith GS-1. Fantastic guitar, lovely wide, flat and fast neck and very well made. Very simple with just the one active pick-up, volume and tone but you can get an incredible array of sounds from it. All made in the UK too. Highly recommended from me and I don't think I'm alone, not sure what kinda money they go for these days though.


Pick nicked from the interweb

Cheers,
Gary

[Omegary]

Found some reviews for you Neil.

http://www.harmonycentral.com/products/81259

I liked this one, under the features section :lol:
Features? What features? It's the most featureless guitar in the world but that's it's charm! If you class 3 pups or a Floyd Rose or a Sustainer as a feature then this has none. If you want build quality, playability and tone to die for then this is a perfect 10!

Cheers,
Gary

[ghosty]

you want a 57 vos les paul jnr, I have had the luck to play one of them and a real 57! it's worth every penny.

if you want something pm me!

[Neil.C]

Thanks for the reviews, pretty much a Junior isn't it Gary?

Not a fan of active pickups since I let the battery melt in my Ovation. :(

Looks a nice one but I must have a Gibson although I quite fancy a double cut. I do love the simplicity though, away from all that Floyd Rose, pointy headstock, 80's type pony. :lol: I bet things like that are difficult to shift now.

As a side note I remember when GS first started all those years ago, they got a good rep in the guitar press at the time.

I think I will have to go down to the shop and check some modern juniors, I really fancy a TV yellow one.

I suppose I could put a WTT out for a Junior after all I have plenty of watches to swap. :lol:

Thanks to Gary and Crazytrain for their experienced replies.

Anyone else??

[Neil.C]

you want a 57 vos les paul jnr, I have had the luck to play one of them and a real 57! it's worth every penny.

if you want something pm me!

What do you think I am Ghosty..... a millionaire. :lol:

Joking aside, my renaissance in playing is quite horrible, I wouldn't do it justice and for that reason I don't really want to go mad with cash. Also I don't know how long the mojo will last again.

I was just thinking about a foil for my US Strat standard really.

My youngest son has three guitars and they are all Strats too. :roll:

[Omegary]

Yes Neil, it's pretty much a junior although they're rumoured to be a lot better built that Les Paul guitars of the era, mine is from the 80's btw. Oh and no batteries required so no meltdowns, well not unless you're really shredding :lol:

Cheers,
Gary

P.S. Didn't have you down as a badge snob :wink:

[lewisanderson]

+1 on the Gordon-Smith. They can tailor-make a guitar to your specs for less than half the price of a Custom Shop '57 VOS. Gibsons can be a bit hit and miss in my experience. Sharp fret edges and two stripped tuners on a '57 Goldtop were the final straw for me re Gibsons. If money is no object, get a Collings 290 Doghair with Lollar P90s.

[hogthrob]

Does anyone know if the PRS SE models any good? I've got a quiet hankering for a guitar of that style.

[Neil.C]

Yes Neil, it's pretty much a junior although they're rumoured to be a lot better built that Les Paul guitars of the era, mine is from the 80's btw. Oh and no batteries required so no meltdowns, well not unless you're really shredding :lol:

That's something I have learned then.

How is a pickup "active" if it is not electrically powered do you know?

P.S. Didn't have you down as a badge snob :wink:

How long have you known me Gary? :lol: :wink:

[Omegary]

How is a pickup "active" if it is not electrically powered do you know?

As ever it appears that I've got me terminology mixed up . It's actually a coil tapped humbucker, so you pull out the volume pot and it gives you a lighter, brighter tone which can sound quite telecaster like, ideal for those funky rhythm chops. Push the pot back in and it goes back to a LP double humbucker tone. Like the rest of the guitar it's incredibly simple but very effective.

How long have you known me Gary? :lol: :wink:

No comment on that one my friend :lol:

Cheers,
Gary

[Omegary]

More pics and a couple of sound files of a GS-1 that sold last month Neil. Very reasonable price too I thought.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php ... bbdd974902

Cheers,
Gary

[DeusIrae]

...would prefer a flat top which leads to me to the Junior or Junior special...

What about an SG?

[Neil.C]

More pics and a couple of sound files of a GS-1 that sold last month Neil. Very reasonable price too I thought.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php ... bbdd974902

Cheers,
Gary

Thanks for the heads up mate.

That natural one was quite a looker and it sounded good as well.

I certainly wouldn't rule out a GS.

Decent price but I couldn't have one that had notes gouged on the back of the headstock. :lol:

Like watches, I like guitars in really nice condition.

Do you know if there are any decent electric guitar forums preferably British based and hopefully in the style of TZ-UK?

[Neil.C]

...would prefer a flat top which leads to me to the Junior or Junior special...

What about an SG?

I must admit I did give the SG some thought.

In fact I'm still giving it some. :lol:

Rather like watches rather than go hunting for a specific model I am likely to see what I come across and if it is suitable although the criteria is: Good make, flat top, simple design.

[Omegary]

Do you know if there are any decent electric guitar forums preferably British based and hopefully in the style of TZ-UK?

I've no idea mate, I stumbled across the Tokai forum when I was doing a google search for a GS-1. I've just joined over there though as I have an old Tokai Strat (Springy Sound) which I'm trying to find more about.

I'm sure Ghosty or any of our other TZ strummers will be able to help you though.

Cheers,
Gary

[Neil.C]

Ah the old "Springy sound", the Marina militaire of the guitar world. :wink:

I seem to remember the Tele model was called a "breezy sound". Very well made guitars and what made Fender open up a Japanese subsidiary.

Hang on though, a Tele would probably suit my needs (flat, basic) and they come in a host of lovely colours as well. :lol: :roll:

[DeusIrae]

...the criteria is: Good make, flat top, simple design.

Well, I used to have an SG and all those criteria are met. In addition, they are very light and very thin. So, easy to live with on a day to day basis.

[Crazytrain]

Ah the old "Springy sound", the Marina militaire of the guitar world. :wink:

Kind of, if Marina Militare's used higher quality materials and were better put together than the Panny's they were copying ;)

Seriously, if you can get beyond the USA made / brand snobbery issues (I admit it took me a while) the late 70's to late 80's Japanese copies are far far better instruments than the manufactured down to a price originals.
I generally take two Les Pauls out when I'm gigging and more often than not my Gibson will end up staying in its case as back up guitar while I play a Greco, Burny or Orville that cost me less than a third of the price!

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[Mrcrowley]

My mate has a Les but dunno if junior.

[Omegary]

Ah the old "Springy sound", the Marina militaire of the guitar world. :wink:

Kind of, if Marina Militare's used higher quality materials and were better put together than the Panny's they were copying ;)

Seriously, if you can get beyond the USA made / brand snobbery issues (I admit it took me a while) the late 70's to late 80's Japanese copies are far far better instruments than the manufactured down to a price originals.
I generally take two Les Pauls out when I'm gigging and more often than not my Gibson will end up staying in its case as back up guitar while I play a Greco, Burny or Orville that cost me less than a third of the price!

Very true if everything I've heard about CBS era Fender production is correct. They made lots of cost cuts throughout their ownership and the results were some pretty dire at times. The Japanese copies at the time were far superior with higher workmanship. My Tokai is from the early 80's, is joy to play and is ageing really well with the maple neck maturing into a lovely colour.

Cheers,
Gary

[monogroover]

Does anyone know if the PRS SE models any good? I've got a quiet hankering for a guitar of that style.

They are very decent guitars for the money, yes. I've only played and inspected one in a shop, but was impressed. Well reviewed guitars, as well.

[monogroover]

Very true if everything I've heard about CBS era Fender production is correct. They made lots of cost cuts throughout their ownership and the results were some pretty dire at times. The Japanese copies at the time were far superior with higher workmanship.

True, although the US Fender factory sorted out its problems at about the same time as they brought out the Japanese Fenders.

My 'Squier Series' strat is nicer than the US strats I've owned in every respect except the finish (perfectly OK but polyester) and the electrics (the Japanese switches and pots from that time can be a bit cheap).

[Neil.C]

Very true if everything I've heard about CBS era Fender production is correct. They made lots of cost cuts throughout their ownership and the results were some pretty dire at times. The Japanese copies at the time were far superior with higher workmanship.

True, although the US Fender factory sorted out its problems at about the same time as they brought out the Japanese Fenders.

This is true and once the American standards came out they didn't look back.

My 'Squier Series' strat is nicer than the US strats I've owned in every respect except the finish (perfectly OK but polyester) and the electrics (the Japanese switches and pots from that time can be a bit cheap).

I have found the same thing, on the Jap Strat I had the pickups especially had a tinny cheap sound and the selector switches are a bit "boingy".

However apart from the finish, the switches and pickups can be changed satisfactorily but it's not cheap.

I have just reread a book I bought in the 90's which is very illustrative and interesting on Fenders history and all the different models ( a lot of failures and frankly hideous stuff :lol:) written by independent authors.

Lots of nice pics too.



After having a play yesterday I find my poor old hands having trouble stretching into a lot of chord shapes and the barres are not that great either.

My US standard from '89 has a wider flatter neck than the originals, fine for soloing but not so good for chordal stuff so I am probably now more interested in a narrower more cambered neck like the older models. :roll:

I'll have to get down the guitar shop soon to have a look.

[Omegary]

Sounds like the best idea Neil, go and have a play and hopefully something will feel right. The shorter scale of something akin to a LP Junior will definitely help with regard to stretch.

I know it's entirely subjective but I find a flatter, thinner but broader neck easier to play and hold down barres etc. Each to their own though and the only way to find out is to get your mitts round some necks :lol:



Cheers,
Gary

[Groundrush]

I know it's entirely subjective but I find a flatter, thinner but broader neck easier to play and hold down barres etc. Each to their own though and the only way to find out is to get your mitts round some necks

I had an Ibanez RG1570 for a while and the necks on those are about as flat, thin and wide as they come. I couldn't get on with it at all, I much prefer a bit more of a hand full. That Ibanez gave me hand cramps.

A mate had a Gordon Smith SG and that was a nice guitar, a bit utilitarian and bland looking to me but it played well and sounded good.

If you're thinking of Strats or Tele's, check out G&L (the L stands for Leo, as in Leo Fender, who founded G&L after he sold Fender guitars to CBS). They do two versions, the American made G&L, and the Korean made G&L Tribute series. I've had 3 of the Tribute series and I can honestly say they are better than any Fender I've played short of the Custom Shop. G&L make some seriously good guitars. If you're after a tele, try a G&L ASAT Special. You wont be buying a Fender after that. For what it's worth, I'm no fan of strats (hate the shape), yet my no 1 at the moment is a G&L Legacy, I can put up with hating the shape when it plays and sound as good as it does.

Going back to Gibson, you could look out for a Nighthawk (or a Blueshawk). I had one for 15 years as my main gigging tool and only sold it 6 months back. They're rare as hens teeth as Gibson discontinued them in 1999 but they fetch less than a Les Paul S/H and are much more versatile.




L to R: Gibson Nighthawk, Gibson Les Paul Studio, G&L Legacy, G&L ASAT Special, Stonebridge GS40CM

[Neil.C]

Sounds like the best idea Neil, go and have a play and hopefully something will feel right. The shorter scale of something akin to a LP Junior will definitely help with regard to stretch.

I know it's entirely subjective but I find a flatter, thinner but broader neck easier to play and hold down barres etc. Each to their own though and the only way to find out is to get your mitts round some necks :lol:

That's the thing Gary, more than most things you really have to try and find what really suits.

After all we all have different size hands, different length fingers and trying a few different models is favourite. :)

[Neil.C]

I know it's entirely subjective but I find a flatter, thinner but broader neck easier to play and hold down barres etc. Each to their own though and the only way to find out is to get your mitts round some necks

I had an Ibanez RG1570 for a while and the necks on those are about as flat, thin and wide as they come. I couldn't get on with it at all, I much prefer a bit more of a hand full. That Ibanez gave me hand cramps.

A mate had a Gordon Smith SG and that was a nice guitar, a bit utilitarian and bland looking to me but it played well and sounded good.

If you're thinking of Strats or Tele's, check out G&L (the L stands for Leo, as in Leo Fender, who founded G&L after he sold Fender guitars to CBS). They do two versions, the American made G&L, and the Korean made G&L Tribute series. I've had 3 of the Tribute series and I can honestly say they are better than any Fender I've played short of the Custom Shop. G&L make some seriously good guitars. If you're after a tele, try a G&L ASAT Special. You wont be buying a Fender after that. For what it's worth, I'm no fan of strats (hate the shape), yet my no 1 at the moment is a G&L Legacy, I can put up with hating the shape when it plays and sound as good as it does.

Going back to Gibson, you could look out for a Nighthawk (or a Blueshawk). I had one for 15 years as my main gigging tool and only sold it 6 months back. They're rare as hens teeth as Gibson discontinued them in 1999 but they fetch less than a Les Paul S/H and are much more versatile.




L to R: Gibson Nighthawk, Gibson Les Paul Studio, G&L Legacy, G&L ASAT Special, Stonebridge GS40CM

They certainly look ducky.

G&L stands for George (Fullerton) and Leo (Fender) I have seen a few and they look very nicely made.

I seem to remember Leo Fender was involved with Musicman before that and they made some really decent stuff. I wonder if they are still going?

BTW thanks everybody for contributing to what I think is a very interesting thread.

I know there are quite a few players out there and it is nice to share a little bit of info now and again.

[ghosty]

you are more than welcome to spend a few hours down with me neil, i have pretty much everything you could want! let me know and you can come and give it some welly here!

[Omegary]

I've got a G&L ASAT tribute (the made in Korea model) too Neil, I didn't mention it as it didn't really fit your initial brief. Anyhow they're a nice guitar, well made and set up, definitely worth checking out if you can. I prefer the tone of my Tokai though if I'm honest.

Shame guitars aren't as easily transportable as watches, I could have sent you a couple over to try out.

Cheers,
Gary

[Neil.C]

you are more than welcome to spend a few hours down with me neil, i have pretty much everything you could want! let me know and you can come and give it some welly here!

What a kind offer Ghosty.

Whereabouts in old London town are you?

[Neil.C]

I've got a G&L ASAT tribute (the made in Korea model) too Neil, I didn't mention it as it didn't really fit your initial brief. Anyhow they're a nice guitar, well made and set up, definitely worth checking out if you can. I prefer the tone of my Tokai though if I'm honest.

Shame guitars aren't as easily transportable as watches, I could have sent you a couple over to try out.

I know, kind thought Gary, we've been spoilt with watches. :lol:

Guitars are so much more personal to the individual and individual in themselves that makes them difficult to purchase.

Especially to someone who hasn't touched one for 15 years.

Lucky enough I have my Strat and Ovation to muck about on.

[monogroover]

I have found the same thing, on the Jap Strat I had the pickups especially had a tinny cheap sound and the selector switches are a bit "boingy".

However apart from the finish, the switches and pickups can be changed satisfactorily but it's not cheap.

I was fortunate enough to get one of the very early Squier strats, with the larger Fender logo - these came with US pickups. Still sound really nice today - sweet, vintage tone. I did have to change the three-way to a (US made) 5-way. It was crackly at first, then just stopped working altogether.

I have just reread a book I bought in the 90's which is very illustrative and interesting on Fenders history and all the different models ( a lot of failures and frankly hideous stuff :lol:) written by independent authors.

Somewhere I have a copy of Duchossoir's "The Fender Stratocaster" - lots of geek info, down to the really small details.

[ghosty]

i have a nice large store in romford if you can make it to me!

[Neil.C]

Thanks Ghosty.

Romford's a bit of a trek for me TBH.

But if I don't see what I want locally I'll be in touch. :)

[ghosty]

i can honestly say it will be worth the journey, i have over 50 gibbos on the wall for demo, plus some watches and a fridge of beer!

If you change your mind let me know!

[Neil.C]

i can honestly say it will be worth the journey, i have over 50 gibbos on the wall for demo, plus some watches and a fridge of beer!

Sounds like heaven mate. :D

If you change your mind let me know!

Certainly will.