Reply With QuoteThey really are 'avin a giraffe.
Have you asked other shops?
Thought I would share my recent experience with Mappin & Webb
I have a Nov 09 Rolex ND Sub 14060M, hardly worn, still with some seals in place, box and papers, UK AD supplied.
Have recently bought a 45.5 Planet Ocean, which makes the Sub seem small :-)
I was toying with the idea of buying a Rolex DS and thought I would ask what value they would give on my sub as trade in.
I realised they would be less than I would get on here or Ebay, but safer and easier.
I was pretty shocked when advised £1400 !!!!!
They explained they would have to service and make a profit.
It would be more understandable if it was a straight sale, but they seem to ignore the profit they would make on a new DS !!
Cant believe this is going to attract many buyers, can they be doing that well to turn off potential customers?
Needless to say I wont bother them again :-)
They really are 'avin a giraffe.
Have you asked other shops?
Paul
GOT...TO...KILL...CAPTAIN STUPID!
selling to a dealer really has to be the last resort of desperation. based on my admittedly limited experience of this, you will struggle to be offered significantly more than that i'd have thought.
Obviously not the one you & I inhabit...
Firstly being an 09 watch it doesn't need a service, really all they'd need to confirm with their friendly Rolex Accredited watchmaker is that it keeps time to within COSC standards (which it should) and perhaps that it passes the relevant pressure test. Neither of which would cost them (based on no doubt discounted labour rates) very much, perhaps £75-£100 max? They could then slap on their own 12 mth warranty.
And there's making a profit and, well... making a profit! No doubt it would be marked up around the £2800 - £3000 mark, so even allowing for a 'service' that's still 100% profit... nice if you can get it. I realise they are a business, and their purpose is to make money, but that just smells of pure greed, and is really just rather foolhardy, as all they've managed to achieve is the loss of a potential customer.
wow, is that not just M&W but others too?
I'll give you £1450 :mrgreen:
None different than a car dealer... trading anything in is cutting off your feet! :)
I'll give you £1500 cash :lol:
"I looked with pity not untinged with scorn upon these trivial-minded passers-by"
I asked about trade price on a Milgauss (still in warranty, full kit) at Goldsmiths and they quoted about the same; I just laughed.
ill offer 3k :D
For a ND. I think the OP would be VERY interested in that...Originally Posted by dcward78
I dont think it is an insult at all, you have asked them what they will pay for it and they have said £1400!
That said they will struggle to sell it for more than £2500 so after whilst it might seem like £1100 of profit, remove tax, time, effort, etc its not the crime of the century! Added to which they are a Rolex AD not a grey or used dealer.
RIAC
my bad, I didn't see the ND!For a ND. I think the OP would be VERY interested in that...
still, £1400 is taking the pi$$ .. what would be the expected amount for this ND?
Errr... except that with a car dealer you generally get a fair(ish) trade in value (depending on model of course), either through an over allowance on the PX or a similar discount on the new car.
Of all the cars I've PX'd over the years the trade in value has generally been only 10-15% less than what I could have got privately. I have sold some cars privately, but they've been the cheaper / more mainstream type of cars (easy to sell on autotrader).
From what the OP said above, M&W want to treat him / her as two distinct profit opportunities. If it was me I'd tell them to sharpen the pencil or they could foxtrot oscar.
Sell it on here for a more realistic price, find a friendly AD who will give you a healthy discount on a DS & then spend the saving on another watch!
Dan
can't really blame them. At the end of the day, their bread and butter is selling new products (yes, I'm fully aware that WoS and M&W has a pre-owned section, but not at every store).
I honestly think that it's either the case of 1. The guy has no idea what he was dealing with (the watch that is) or 2. They just gave you a low offer because they didn't really want to have anything to do with it.
How about getting in touch with grey dealers?
How much do Mappin and Webb pay for a new from direct from Rolex?
Generally speaking they buy at 50 and sell for a 100.
Exactly, as a Rolex AD how much do you think they would pay for a new one - which they would make more money on and a cheaper 2nd hand one would compete with in the window - not really a win win for them - but still £1400 is crazily cheap - I'd love one for that and I'd happily pay £1000 more for a nice hardly used complete example.
It's just a matter of time...
Had a similar experience with M&W.
They offered £500 for my Breitling which I was picking up from them after a £265 service as PX for a Navitimer. It was in as new condition and had a 1 year Breitling warranty.
Even if they did little more than break even on the PX they would still be facilitating the sale of a new watch.
Sometimes it's the only realistic way to get a sale.
Exactly.
It may be hard to swallow when you have bought new but the mark up on watches and jewellery is around 100% so why should they want to bother too much with a watch that needs a certain amount of "handling" for the warranty they have to offer when they can make more money more easily by just selling new stuff?
Cheers,
Neil.
I don't understand why you are complaining. You asked for a value & were given one. It wasn't what you wanted & you
walked away. You weren't committed to anything & neither were M&W. The End.
______
Jim.
This was my view too, just surprised by the amount of profit expected, I know the motor trade can be bad for straight purchases, but they will normally consider the profit on what they are selling in a trade in.
Just feel M&W are short sighted IMHO
let me give you a couple of examples of mainstream jewellers offering part exchange prices.a brand new rolex airking which retailed for £1400 trading in at earnest jones(?) - they offered their "maximum" trade-in price of £250.when i said this was very low i was told people traded in their rolex's all the time at this price.....a 2 year old maurice lacroix grande reveil masterpeice(triple time zone with alarm mechanical) which retailed for £3100.....i was offered £300 at WOS and £100 at a well known secondhand watch retailer off bond st.another thing to note is that breguet manufacture a watch at 30% of retail so your £10k watch you just bought cost £3k to manufacture.......you can guess at the money made by the retailer.also you have to remember that jewellers make money just by dealing with your watch during servicing.in QP magazine recently their was an article about servicing where a tourbillon was serviced for£12k but by the time it was handed back by the retailer the price had swollen to an astounding £18k :roll:
I think the motor trade do the same its just blended in very carefully to make you feel you are getting more for your money!
RIAC
Exactly.Generally speaking they buy at 50 and sell for a 100.
So they're not going to pay even close to 1/2 price on your used watch if they can get a brand new one for the same. It's simply bad business.
If you think second hand watch prices are poor, look at diamonds.
A few years ago I tried to trade in an IWC DaVinci chrono I had for about a month (bought new) and didn't bond with so only worn a couple of times. My plan was to trade for an Omega AT. The salesman seemed real positive and went into the back so his manager could price the watch. He comes back with a big smile on his face and tells me I can have $600.00 USD off the AT. I took the IWC back.
On Sunday they missed out on a Deepsea sale because they refused to give me a 10% discount off a Deepsea.
They rang on Monday to say the manager had said he would allow it "this once".
It's their most popular watch and they can't get them into stock quickly enough. Allegedly.
Not sure why they're sat in the window unsold then but they can stay there...
Agreed.
Out of that potential £1100 gross profit there is 20% vat, and 27% corporation tax gone for a start. About 2% of the whole £2500 if the buyer pays by credit card. Then they have to cover any warranty costs etc, plus it will probably cost then a new sale where they have more profit to start with.
well dealers try kick in the balls they got a shop to pay for :shock:
Agreed.
Out of that potential £1100 gross profit there is 20% vat, and 27% corporation tax gone for a start. About 2% of the whole £2500 if the buyer pays by credit card. Then they have to cover any warranty costs etc, plus it will probably cost then a new sale where they have more profit to start with.
Im almost starting to feel sorry for them but not quite :-)
I fully agree that it is up to them, but just surprised at how low they offer.
Wouldnt it be worth taking no profit on the trade in to secure a new DS sale?
M&W are part of Goldsmiths group I believe. Watches of Switzerland are also part of the same group and the shop on King St. Manchester is a JOKE!
My friend's uncle has a solid Gold Ebel something or other that was £6000 many years ago, so I don't know it's value now. They offered...
£600!!!!!!
For a solid 18k gold watch and bracelet that's fully boxed and papered!
that may have something to do with it.
what would be the scrap value of the said Ebel in that case?
It's only a joke if you can find someone to give you considerably more!
RIAC
It was quite a bit more than £600 I believe. He also took a Panerai in and they offered £400! lolthat may have something to do with it.
what would be the scrap value of the said Ebel in that case?
The way I see it is they offer 10% of the value in that particular shop.
He could have done quite easily but just wanted to walk in, sell his watch and come out with a new Radiomir. I don't see what's wrong with that.
I run a business and there's a fine line between insulting people with offers and keeping them as customers. To me, WoS don't know where this line is. However, I am only talking of the Manchester store and it's perfectly possible that other stores are better when it comes to offers.
I think a lot depends on how they look at it.Agreed.
Out of that potential £1100 gross profit there is 20% vat, and 27% corporation tax gone for a start. About 2% of the whole £2500 if the buyer pays by credit card. Then they have to cover any warranty costs etc, plus it will probably cost then a new sale where they have more profit to start with.
Im almost starting to feel sorry for them but not quite :-)
I fully agree that it is up to them, but just surprised at how low they offer.
Wouldnt it be worth taking no profit on the trade in to secure a new DS sale?
If they take no profit on the trade in then they are effectively having to sell two watches to get the profit from one.
You could say some profit out of two sales is better than none at all but what do you do when the next trade in comes in against your trade in, do you accept zero profit on that one too and then have to sell three watches for one profit ?
If the business is just looking for high turnover then they would do your deal but if they are looking to maintain a high margin (maybe to support a share price) then they may be better off in the long run not doing it.
Of course you (understandably) don't really care, you just want the best deal :-)
£400. for a Panerai :shock: hmmm, are you sure?? The person who quoated £400 was from M&S. Salad department.It was quite a bit more than £600 I believe. He also took a Panerai in and they offered £400! lolthat may have something to do with it.
what would be the scrap value of the said Ebel in that case?
The way I see it is they offer 10% of the value in that particular shop.
ish
Everybody seems to be presuming that M&W would retain the watch for sale when traded in. It could go to another "specialist" at trade
price for disposal. Say M&W flip your £1400 watch immediately to another seller for £1900/2000. The "specialist" can then sell the watch
on for £2500/3000. (Arbitrary price range after looking at one website, please don't say I'm too high/too low.) M&W make a nice easy
profit & so does the "specialist". Or perhaps Sam the Salesman could pony up the £1400 & get a watch with a retail of double that for himself
(not that I think that would ever happen).
I really don't think ADs want trade ins & that is what really drives their valuations.
______
Jim.
Out of interest I checked up on the vat position and under the margin scheme used when buying secondhand goods from non vat registered sellers, they only charge for vat/pay vat on the difference in price.Agreed.
Out of that potential £1100 gross profit there is 20% vat, and 27% corporation tax gone for a start. About 2% of the whole £2500 if the buyer pays by credit card. Then they have to cover any warranty costs etc, plus it will probably cost then a new sale where they have more profit to start with.
Out of interest I checked up on the vat position and under the margin scheme used when buying secondhand goods from non vat registered sellers, they only charge for vat/pay vat on the difference in price.Agreed.
Out of that potential £1100 gross profit there is 20% vat, and 27% corporation tax gone for a start. About 2% of the whole £2500 if the buyer pays by credit card. Then they have to cover any warranty costs etc, plus it will probably cost then a new sale where they have more profit to start with.
that's what I said, 20% vat on the gross profit
If you think that is an insult -ask for a trade in on a 911 at a Porsche Dealer ! :wink:
I'm a professional insult receiver !
http://www.webuyanywatch.com
>sings annoying tune<
My local jewellers (and a Rolex AD) just outside Manchester offer pretty average prices on 2nd hand, but whenever I've been in with a watch to sell or p/x I've been offered three prices. One to buy outright, one to trade (so buy outright +10/20% discount incorporated) and one to put in the window to sell on a commission basis.
Not the ideal solution, I agree, but I have had a few pieces put in the window and sold for me, paying a 20% fee.
It means that their prices are completely transparent.
I.E. "we'll give you £1000 cash or sell for you at £2000 and take a commission"
Basically giving you an honest re-sale price, and giving the option of cash up front or taking the risk of it sitting there for 6 months.
Always makes me feel a bit more comfortable when a dealer is honest about prices.
Bottom line, bricks and mortar watch shops need a higher mark up than online sellers.
Its a pretty desperate option though....
I'm really not sure why the OP is so upset, did you ask what the price on the DSSD would be after discounting i.e. establish the "cost of change"??
It's the cost of change that really matters, if they take your ND in for peanuts but give a cracking discount on the DSSD then the actual financials could be less than getting a great price on the ND but then paying RRP on the DSSD. You really can't just look at one side of the exchange but not the other, to me you've shot your load a little early here and £1400 is only a low figure if it were a straight out and out cash sale to the AD.
Just to clarify, I wasnt upset, just surprised and thought this may be of interest.
Seems from other comments I am far from alone in feeling they are being unrealistic.
I did ask about discounts for cash/bank transfer if I sold my sub elsewhere and none available.
I certainly wouldn't be paying list for a new DSSD at the moment. 10% discount should be easily obtainable.
That's true, but this may be because a lot of people are also uninformed. Leaving aside the deal on the new one, that arbitrary £1,100 is (as someone already said, but was carefully ignored) down 20% sales tax, 28% income tax, and the cost of servicing (yes it's only two years old, but how do they know what you've done to it?) and a valet, and the cost of providing a warranty. They might pocket a couple of hundred at the end, maybe £300.
Just to clarify, I wasnt upset, just surprised and thought this may be of interest.
Seems from other comments I am far from alone in feeling they are being unrealistic.
So what's "realistic"? £2,200? Selling for £2,750, they'll make several pounds, or possibly a loss. That's simply not realistic.
In this case, the trade-in value seems OK. I would have expected £1,200 or less.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Look at it from a slightly different perspective. Whilst maybe, according to some, the Deep Sea isn't a great seller they will sell it and probably for list price. They also already have a shop full of watches they so don't need yours unless the price is such that they can have it lying there until they sell it but until then for them it is just dead money and hassle and might take away the sale of another new Rolex. As someone already said they have no idea how you treated the watch during your ownership so they have to take that into account as well. If you take everything into consideration including their costs their offer was probably about right.
They are a business not a charity.
Posting Permissions