Reply With QuoteFunnily enough I was in Devonport in June 1988, celebrating the Armada 400 anniversary in one of Her Majesty's finest grey war canoes. If I'd know, I might have put a req order into stores...
Hi Everyone I know it took me a while but better late than never lol here is the Seiko Yellow Face complete with all original packaging......
Markings Read as follows
NOT TO BE OPENED UNTILL REQUIRED FOR USE
METHOD IC DEVONPORT
DATE 8 JUNE 88
FRAGILE
CL GRP 0552
PATT GXOCO 1718
WRISTWATCH
QTY 1
S/N 3N5002
http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/1018/vulcanr.jpg
http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/933/vulcan1.jpg
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/5271/vulcan2.jpg
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/4336/vulcan3.jpg
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/676/vulcan4.jpg
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/268/vulcan5.jpg
http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/2815/vulcan6.jpg
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/191/vulcan7.jpg
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/500/vulcan8.jpg
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/5999/vulcan9.jpg
http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/2295/vulcan10.jpg
Funnily enough I was in Devonport in June 1988, celebrating the Armada 400 anniversary in one of Her Majesty's finest grey war canoes. If I'd know, I might have put a req order into stores...
Fixed for you :)
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Interesting. However, it lays the "Vulcan" myth to bed. I doubt that Vulcans flew out of Devonport!
So, a Navy order? The boxes say 0552, so certainly not ordered by the RAF.
Thanks Charlie.
Thanks for your help not used to posting yet
And out of service by '88, surely...Originally Posted by RABbit
Yes. By a good four years.And out of service by '88, surely...
Anything on the back?
The address, and indeed date, rule this one out as being for Vulcan crew.
That doesnt imply that this model couldnt also have been issued to Vulcan crew though.
Hi Nothing on the back all markings stated in my previous post
Just an aside regarding the date on the box.
That method of packing is normal for many forms of MoD stores items, and the date will be the last time it was inspected and repacked.
Some storemen didn't bother opening the box to inspect items.
I have some Vulcan autopilot assemblies here, and some of the smaller components are now in a 2 foot square box, with a series of smaller boxes inside like a Russian doll down to the original fag-packet sized one. :lol:
All the best,
PB
With a 0552 suffix to the NSN, could that mean it was intended for the Fleet Air Arm? Hunter, Phantom, Buccaneer, Canberra; all these were operated by the Senior services version of the Royal Air Force in the 70's.
Look at the day disc on the watch shown. "Sab". So not English. Why would the RN do this?
Sorry, this doesn't prove anything at all. It is NOT "100% Genuine Military Issue Fact". Certainly not "Vulcan" and I don't believe the MOD would order Spanish watches.
The "Vulcan" Seiko remains a myth.
They would also not want km/h on the dial or the metal bracelet. All RAF aircrew watches of that period were issued with a NATO strap and a pigskin cuff for the strap to go through - I was issued a Seiko by the RAF in 1988 and that was the standard across stores at the time.
And why no mil caseback marking like the regular issued Seiko chronos?
Cheers..
Jase
Missed that bit
Whichever way you look at it, this is not MOD.
They were never official issue, the legend has it that they were local purchase.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
As many have said, no NSN, no crows foot, wrong layout, etc. Devonport is a big old place, lots of companies have been in there for decades as well, if it was issued then it was via a special purchase through commercial off the shelf order.
^ In Gibraltar by the looks of it!
I think it's probably just that. The problem with the internet is that this sort of legend becomes viral and because it's "out there" it must be true.
Until I see a purchase order by a specific unit, I for one won't believe this legend.
Sounds like a job for the Spanish inquisition, who incidently, had a branch in Devonport at that time :shock:
I've told this story before but back in the days, I used to buy Smiths W10s in bulk from the wholesale arm of Anchor Supplies. I got to know the warehouse supervisor quite well and I made it clear I was interested in any military watches he could offer, especially IWC (they were still coming through then).I think it's probably just that. The problem with the internet is that this sort of legend becomes viral and because it's "out there" it must be true.
Until I see a purchase order by a specific unit, I for one won't believe this legend.
One day he phoned me and asked me what I knew about a yellow dial Seiko chronograph which they had just received in a parcel of assorted military watches from the Ministry of Defence. I had previously heard of the "Vulcan" Seiko and had actually been offered one about a year previously, in a plain cardboard box with a military sticker on it and the watch (head only) wrapped in wax paper. I told him what I knew and he put it on eBay where it made about £800 in 2001 or thereabouts.
I know this doesn't prove anything but it's interesting that it was included in a parcel of watches from the MoD.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
:D
As was mine, Eddie, so it's more than coincidence. Mine came with a batch of 7A28's before they hit big money. I paid £50 each at the time.I know this doesn't prove anything but it's interesting that it was included in a parcel of watches from the MoD.
Eddie
I don't understand these people who say there is no link to the military with these watches. Maybe not official issue, and almost certainly not Vulcan crew watches, but most certainly all I have seen have come via military disposal.
Cheers
Foggy
I know that there are literally hundreds of watches on the MoD system (i've checked :D ), there are actually a few that have been marked up, given NSN's, but never actually physically ordered or stocked.
I might have another look on the system for this one, there's a few seiko's on there, if the s/n ties in and it's on the system then it would give it a bit more validity i guess.
Many Seiko's have bi-lingual day discs, the disc in my 7A38 is Spanish & English
I don't think your previous post gave the Seiko serial number of your watch. Does your watch have the same 3N5002 serial number as shown on the box? This wasn't the serial number on the Seiko watch shown in your original photos on MWR in 2009 http://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21075
Kind regards
Dave
With it having a 0552 prefix it adds value to what I was told about the yellow seikos which is as follows:-
"Just to add a little more controversy to the yellow seiko. I heard another story from a gentlemen who has been supplying ex mod equipment for 35 years including watches as he has had the mod contracts for many years now.
Basically over the years he has received several of these yellow dialled seikos in batches of watches and he told me that the ones he received all came from naval bases. He has actually toured the mod store rooms in several bases and witnessed many watches getting destroyed and placed in sealed oil drums and disposed off.
Anyway back to the yellow dialled seikos when he enquired about them he was told they were used by submarine crews. So who knows hey!!!"
Nice watch, regardless.
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
The likely scenario here is that these were trials watches.. off the shelf, unmarked and handed out for evaluation in very limited numbers. If you consider when the Gen. 1 issued Seiko chrono's began to be issued in Oct. 1984, the time line makes sense...
The Seiko pictured with the box is different to the other one posted will post pictures of the back shortly serial numbers do match this is how the watch came direct from the MOD they also came from a Army base NOT a Naval base and where discribed in the paper work as Vulcan Issue sadly I no longer have that paperwork wish I had kept it.
Pictures as promised a bit quicker than last time lol
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/8671/vulcanback4.jpg
http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/8350/vulcanback.jpg
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/9775/vulcanback1.jpg
http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/6920/vulcanback2.jpg
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/8638/vulcanback3.jpg
If the original packaging states 'Devonport' then it was originaly packaged at the Naval base in Devonport. You may have got it from the Army (don't know how) but the ORIGINAL paperwork says Devonport so it ORIGINALLY came from the NAVY!
And either way this does NOT prove this was a "Vulcan" Seiko. If anything, I'd venture to suggest it proves quite the opposite. Maybe it was used or intended for the RAF, as they would have most use for a chronograph, but not in Vulcans.
I fully acknowledge Eddie's (and others) report that these were in the military supply chain, somehow. They were clearly not "issued" as they have no NSN. Test pieces, local purchase? They have some military provenance, even if we don't know exactly how.
If they are civilian watches bought by the MOD, there seems to be no way to tell which have been through the MOD's hands; thus any out there for sale could easily be true civilian and not worth any premium that Ebay sellers attribute to them.
..unless it comes in an MoD box perhaps.... :whistle:
Live long and prosper.
Not that sort of Vulcan? Damn....
David
Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations
Moderately confused by this part. Why would there not be use for a chronograph in a bomber with two navigators?
Sorry, I meant this watch for Vulcans in particular as has been claimed. This watch is dated 1988 when the Vulcans were being stood down so why order specifically for them? Of course a chrono is useful for navigators. I like the theory that this watch may have been an assessment for a Seiko gen 1 replacement.
OK, I'm with you now - I just got a bit confused after my dependence on chronographs in the air (although I signed out a stopwatch from stores and had it attached to my flying suit on a quick release fob), the stopwatch was easier to operate and read in the sort of buffeting that was standard on low-level timed runs.
Tornados?
It's still not disproven, and it seems very possible that these were used. There are also other Seikos with markings that were issued in the RN as small purchases for example. It's good to keep an open mind, imho.
Br,
AP.
I have been to Anchor to see Charlotte and they had a few of these in a few years ago all with there boxes and her boss swears they came with a order letter saying Vulcan, sadly without the letter its hearsay.
Her boss still has a few watches with there matching boxes with matching serial numbers fact.
I contacted one of my customers who works in the military stores for the Army in Nottingham and gave him all the details listed by Charlotte on the box.
After a few days research he called me today and his conclusion was one of 2 possibilities.
Firstly the good news he was pretty certain these where purchased by the MOD he has seen these type of boxes before :D :D
Thats where the good news wavers a little :roll:
My customer in the MOD stores has seen similar boxes especially for civilian purchases for MOD, he said the MOD purchased quite a few seiko LCD stop watches a few years back that never had a stamped NSN number. At anchor they have some LCD seiko stop watches with no NSN that came from the MOD hmmmmm.
This leads to the theories.
Both of these theories have been discussed by mod stores and long serving military personnel.
Theory 1. These where purchased as a commemorative item for vulcan crews and never used. He felt this was a very big possibility.
Theory 2. They where intended for use with vulcan/RAF personal and got shelved and forgot.
Either way they where shelved by someone in the MOD and by his reckoning its quite normal for this to happen.
He said when it came to military surplus the MOD where never sentimental if it gathered dust it got sold and usually the simplest answer is the right one.
The MOD stores carry everything from socks to tank engines so maybe our passion is a little lost on these guys lol
I suppose we like to think every new recruit just cant wait to get his hands on a watch but alas they have more manly urges on there minds or possibly a pair of socks without holes in. Sadly in 2010 our heroes are more worried about kevlar than pulsar :roll:
Maybe we feel that this is such a grail watch that we forget it was a simple decision that shelved the watch!
Devenport 1984
"err John did you hear they've disbanded the vulcan squadron!" "bugger I've just ordered 300 watches for them guys they where complaining the dials where too dull" "bung em in a box John we'll find a use for em"
We might be having this same discussion in 20 years time about ark Royal 0552 watches I think there wrist watches might be the last thing on there minds during the defence budget cuts
Well for me its a bloody loverly watch that was good enough to be purchased by the MOD even if it was for Royal Navy lolly pop men :lol: I havent got one and if I can buy one for the right price I will snap it up just encase I find a picture of Michael Heseltine wearing one getting into a westland helicopter with a folder marked Project Vulcan "top secret" tucked under his arm!!
Oh and one final thing he said just because the box says Devenport it doesn't mean they where purchased by them :wink: things got shifted quite a bit by the MOD.
on that note he did say I try looking down the navy/coast guard route :?: makes sense. :idea:
The first time I saw a "Vulcan Seiko" would have been in 1996 or 1997. There were a group of collectors in the Worksop area who had a special interest in military watches and it was one of this group who had acquired the Seiko. It was in a smallish brown cardboard box and wrapped in wax paper, there was a label on the box but I don't recollect what was printed on it.
Nobody amongst the four of us present doubted that it was anything but a military watch at that time, given the source but I have no idea where the Vulcan connection came from. I have no doubt that these yellow dialled Seiko were purchased and issued by the military but beyond this I can offer no evidence of quantities involved or actual use.
Although I believe there is military provenance, I'm also thinking that the Vulcan connection was perhaps a bit of "embellishment" to enhance the collectability and value. Similar stories exist about the Seiko Hikers watch which was reborn as the "Contra".
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
Had a quick look, there is no 'yellow dial or faced' wristwatch on the system, or been on the system. There are a few Seiko's, but no yellow faced ones, or vulcan ones.
I cannot see this being an issued watch, as to be issued it would need to be managed through the 6BB/0552 section, who would have ordered the watch using the guidance in DEF STAN 66-4 Part 2, which states that the dial is to be black, with white numerals, that, at the time was the regulation for chronograph's procured by the MoD.
Good God no! The electric jet of certain misfortune - hateful things, as soon as I managed to express a choice (and get it), I went for a low-level C-130 squadron. However, my first use of the watch as a timing aid on target runs was back on the Jet Provost 5 (which dates me a bit), I switched to a real stopwatch when I was on the Herc and we had a flightdeck large enough to use a grandfather clock if need be (and which would have looked quite nice next to the fireplace and close to the scullery).Tornados?
One thing that I have noticed is that there is a great deal of strange kit that has been in the MOD supply chain over the years - some of it is fairly obscure and was occasionally locally purchased at unit level.
Good God no! The electric jet of certain misfortune - hateful things, as soon as I managed to express a choice (and get it), I went for a low-level C-130 squadron. However, my first use of the watch as a timing aid on target runs was back on the Jet Provost 5 (which dates me a bit), I switched to a real stopwatch when I was on the Herc and we had a flightdeck large enough to use a grandfather clock if need be (and which would have looked quite nice next to the fireplace and close to the scullery).Tornados?
One thing that I have noticed is that there is a great deal of strange kit that has been in the MOD supply chain over the years - some of it is fairly obscure and was occasionally locally purchased at unit level.
Oh there's some seriously weird and wonderful stuff bought within the MoD, but it's all ordered in for a reason, after seeing some weird stuff getting ordered i can only assume that reason was good enough for the OC at the unit to sign off on the order.
I have seen watches procured via non codified means before, with navy divers getting some suunto's ordered that they wanted, they are unmarked as well, so who knows, maybe 20 years from now folk will be going mad for a suunto that was used by the military, although i somehow doubt that :lol:
There is a RN 'Vulcan' out there; formerly HMS Vulcan, until 1981 when it was renamed as Vulcan NRTE http://www.nda.gov.uk/ukinventory/sites/vulcan/
Would that warrant its own issue of watch, distinct from the others available in the system and not lumed with Tritium or Promethium because radioactivity was carefully measured and monitored?
Although if sitting in the stores at Devonport it would be in about the most inconvenient location possible for an establishment in Caithness...hmmm on reflection I think that adds weight to the theory :lol:
My Seiko 7A38-701B
These watch is truly rare?
Ignore me - I thought this was a new thread. Just realized it's the same one from December 2010, that's been bumped.
It's already been well and truly debunked once before. What's new ?
Anyway .... here's a topical photo.
Last edited by Seiko7A38; 12th December 2013 at 18:31. Reason: Doh factor !
I used to buy military watches from the wholesale arm of Anchor Supplies and developed a good working relationship with them. One day, my contact e-mailed me and asked me what I knew about a yellow dialled Seiko chrono because he had just received one in a batch of watches they purchased from the MoD. The pictures he sent me were of the watch we know as the "Vulcan" Seiko and it was in a brown cardboard box with military labels on the outside.
Whether it is a genuine issue watch or not, it went on to make a then record for this model on eBay. This must have been around 2002/3.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
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