Reply With QuoteIt is not just Aston Martin, so many brands are pimping out their name to products that do not represent them. They water down the brand and make it worth less.
The car will probably sell like hot cakes to Sloane Rangers ... and male hairdressers who have not quite made their mark. But note the speed and acceleration figures are 'predicted'' ... perhaps the usual car testers refused to be seen in it :wink:
MAX SPEED 106 MPH(170KM/H)PREDICTED
ACCELERATION 0-62 MPH (0-100 KM/H) 6-SPEED MANUAL: 11.8 SECONDS PREDICTED
ACCELERATION 0-62 MPH (0-100 KM/H) CVT: 11.6 SECONDS PREDICTED
dunk
"Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"
It is not just Aston Martin, so many brands are pimping out their name to products that do not represent them. They water down the brand and make it worth less.
The thing is, if you really want a :mrgreen: Aston Martin, all you have to do is persuade Prince Charles to sell you his wine-powered DB6.
Imagine you win a Cygnet in a competition. Would you keep it? Or would you sell it?
I would not wish to be seen driving such a piece of ostentatious vulgarity.
dunk
"Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"
This might seem a little extreme but I think Jaguar have Aston on the ropes nowdays.
I recently drove a new supercharged XJL and christ that was a snarling beast. priced at GBP 100k, it's 40k cheaper than the Rapide & faster to boot...
You don't understand, do you? AM is doing this so they can stay in business in Europe. If they don't, they will be closed out of the entire market by the forces of rectitude. No problem; Britain in particular doesn't seem very proud of its brands or industrial heritage so what's another deal old brand that you didn't look after. If I was AM, I'd get out anyway.Originally Posted by Top
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
I'd sell it. I could buy a nice watch with the proceeds.
I've had to walk past one for the last 4-weeks and imho it is an odious little car and its existence is not justified by the carbon offset reasoning.
For £30k+ you'd have to want your head tested; while not a fan of the Toyota iQ, it certainly makes far more sense at circa £10k MSRP.
Everyone's getting a bit precious about this aren't they? I think it's quite cool irrespective of its carbon offset status.
I think it expands Astons brand from simply luxury vehicles playboys into a innovative automative engineering company. If BMW can do bicycles and skateboards, Lamborghini can do tractors, Ferrari can do 4x4's, Lotus can do snowmobiles, and Aston/Tickford can do Mini Metro's and upgraded Ford Capri's then there's nothing wrong with this whatsoever.
I look forward to more stuff from Aston that gets everyone's knickers in a twist.
Do they actually have to sell any or just offer a low-carbon alternative ?
Lamborghini started with tractors.
As for being precious... I don't care what Aston Martin do with their brand. For all I care, they can re-badge a Lada and sell it as the new DB10.
I simply don't like the car and whether it had an Aston Badge or a Honda badge, a £30,000+ city car, which is nearly 100% mechanically identical to a car you can buy for less than £10,000 seems ridiculous. What amazes is that Aston (and the customers who buy these ugly ducklings) believe that a cheap Halfords-esque bodykit and some leather trim add £20k to the price of a Toyota iQ!
Erm, small point of order: what I guess you meant is "Lamborghini can do cars". You do know how Ferrucio Lamborghini made his fortune, don't you? :wink:
I doubt Aston (or their customers) believe that a styling kit and leather trim ad £20k to the value of the car. It's the AM logo that ads the value, just as sticking a Panerai logo on the dial of an average Swiss watch will make it worth upwards of 3 times more than the same item with an TW Steel logo on the dial. We buy brands and there's no logic to it.
Chris, you make a valid point, especially on a watch forum where many of the watches we buy have the same movement but in a variety of cases, with a myriad of logos; however, you only quoted part of my quote. The first part said that for me, the Aston badge didn't compensate IMHO enough to justify the £20,000 uplift over an iQ.
I doubt Aston (or their customers) believe that a styling kit and leather trim ad £20k to the value of the car. It's the AM logo that ads the value, just as sticking a Panerai logo on the dial of an average Swiss watch will make it worth upwards of 3 times more than the same item with an TW Steel logo on the dial. We buy brands and there's no logic to it.
As a side note, there is a new one on my local Aston lot with a price tag of £35,995 :shock:
Personally, it doesn't add up.
Don't forget Aston make over 5000 cars a year... it is perceived exclusivity like a certain 5 letter swiss watch company. As for the badge engineering, what's the difference between the early XK8's and DB7's?
Of course it's ridiculous! It's all ridiculous. Buying an Aston at any price is illogical and ridiculous. I'm glad to hear you don't like it for what it is, rather than what it represents. Most of the people who complain about this car do so because they see it as an abomination of the dearly held Aston brand values. Those are the ones I'd call precious. As for the price/IQ thing...isn't that what pimping stuff is all about?Lamborghini started with tractors.
As for being precious... I don't care what Aston Martin do with their brand. For all I care, they can re-badge a Lada and sell it as the new DB10.
I simply don't like the car and whether it had an Aston Badge or a Honda badge, a £30,000+ city car, which is nearly 100% mechanically identical to a car you can buy for less than £10,000 seems ridiculous. What amazes is that Aston (and the customers who buy these ugly ducklings) believe that a cheap Halfords-esque bodykit and some leather trim add £20k to the price of a Toyota iQ!
Check the history of the company.Erm, small point of order: what I guess you meant is "Lamborghini can do cars". You do know how Ferrucio Lamborghini made his fortune, don't you? :wink:
What would you have them do? Rebadge a Peugeot 107 diesel instead? Go bust? Leave the UK for good and set up in Asia? Genuinely, now. What would be your response to the EU enforcement?
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Er they are making cars abroad?
We all know what DB stands for? David Brown....
Make lighter cars with more efficient smaller engines. Keep the flagship V12. Ditch the CygnetWhat would you have them do? Rebadge a Peugeot 107 diesel instead? Go bust? Leave the UK for good and set up in Asia? Genuinely, now. What would be your response to the EU enforcement?
"A man of little significance"
Who ran Aston Martin at a loss because his profitable tractor business could cover the losses.
In case you want to check one out, The Conran Store has an orange one in South Ken. It looks mental!!
Erm, I have, thanks. Lamborghini made tractors, then made cars.
Which history are you looking at?
Hey do they stil have that Moulton bike fo sale in there?
I assumed that they'd priced it so high, to try and ensure that no one would buy one, and they wouldn't have to make many of the things.
Setting aside my point that I don't care what Aston Martin do with either their brand or the company, what would make the most sense would be (and as someone on this thread has already suggested) to develop their core product offering; make their cars lighter and the engines more efficient. If they wanted a small car for the short term, why not take over the ACE project (the UK company who bought the rights to the Smart Roadster and were going to re-engineer it with a manual gearbox and other VERY minor changes, then sell it under the old ACE brand). This would have made a lot more sense in relation to their brand positioning and strategic planning IMHO.What would you have them do? Rebadge a Peugeot 107 diesel instead? Go bust? Leave the UK for good and set up in Asia? Genuinely, now. What would be your response to the EU enforcement?
Here are some links to the project:-
http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/20459 ... dster.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Kimber
"brand positioning"....two of the most vomit inducing language in modern management-speak.
Since when did AM owners think green, the only one is P Charles,
in that case there's even more onus on Aston to do it for them
"A man of little significance"
If they wanted to demonstarte reduction in emmissions they should have gone electric/hybrid on full size vehicle - would still be a joke, but if that's what they need to do to comply with regulations...
Very amusing.
:lol:
Ferrari and Lamborghini are both reducing weight on a drastic scale, with carbon fibre chassis etc and Lamborghini have even said they can see carbon wheels on production cars in the near future. If the next (or next but one) Gallardo can weigh 1,000kg then they'll be leaving behind cars like the Aston V8 and DB9. The excessive weight isn't necessary and much of these advances in engine and emissions technology are just going towards lugging around extra weight. Smaller more efficient engines in lighter stronger cars will still make for exceptionally fast sports cars, which actually handle properly and don't have to rely so much on electronics and huge tyres to keep them on the road. The weight issue owes a lot to Lamborghini developing a new type of carbon fibre weave which is possible to mass produce, or at least takes a lot less time and energy to make than the current stuff. If you aren't aware of it already, go and look up the Murray T25 and read up on the manufacturing process.
Now all we need is the housing industry to catch up and build us houses with modern design and technology instead of pumping out all these bland clone boxes
"A man of little significance"
Not a very wise move. While I am sure that they will sell the small car in big numbers, it will harm the sales of their bread and butter business. Traditional Aston owners and traditional potential buyers will not like this development. A much wiser move would be to offer a high end electric model if its about reducing emissions. Electric motors can produce far quicker acceleration power than traditional combustion engines.
For example the GreenGT:
Apologies for the extreme thread resurrection but I was amazed to actually see a blue Cygnet when I was driving to work this morning. It doesn't look anything special in real life, just a slightly remodelled Aygo. If I didn't know what I was looking for I would never have spotted it was an Aston.
I saw one in August in the port in Port Andraxt in Mallorca
Its hideous in the flesh..... all my 3 sons thought the same (and if kids 17, 15 and 12 are not impressed then I cannot see who would be)
In the immortal words of that little kid in Meet the Fockers: Ah...soul.....
Yeah but the Cygnet has "soul"..
Ian (BP) makes some very good points.
1. Aston needs a low emission car to reduce levels on average across the range - this means a smaller, less powerful car by definition.
2. It needs to be for sale - not a giveaway.
3. Because of the conflict with performance and image, it's unlikely that customers will use the small car to replace their Astons - so not worth tooling up.
It seems to me there are two solutions:
1. Buy and off-the-shelf product and re-badge it.
2. Find another way of increasing green / CSR credentials.*
*There are inumerable problems with the impact of the processing and production of cars in general never mind when the consumer drives them. There is a considerable amount of shipping, production and other nefarious processes that result in noxious output across many other sectors not just the automotive sector.
Yes, it's a good thing to reduce emissions but I think that purely high performance car manufacturers should be given the choice of contributing in other ways - their emissions as a percentage of the market must be tiny. Perhaps they could reduce other companies' emissions or offsetting their own emissions in some way. Presumably, ultimately it will weigh on the financial performance of sportscar manufacturers and they may consider that it's not worthwhile when they could produce a more prosaic range. That may be the logical conclusion but it's subsuming us all in the celebration of the mediocre and the average.
I suppose this leads us on to alternative power / fuels....
This was given to Sir Stirling Moss to drive around in, a freebie as I understand. He proudly showed it off to my son last year when he interviewed him.
I guess it bares out what I was told a few years ago, "Moss would attend the opening of a paper bag if the price was right"
Apparently it's a one off AM spray job to boot.
I saw one this morning in Harrogate and it didn't look anything special enough to warrant the price tag... I only noticed it as I was going slowly in heavy traffic...
Jeepers, I just looked up the price. £30,995!
I did have a good look around one when last at AM on Park Lane and the attention to detail is very good. It has a certain 2 fingers up cheekiness that rather appeals in a funny sort of way.
I live in Newport Pagnell, I grew up here and other than a break of 10 years working away and 5 years away at school, I always have done, so I'm pretty used to seeing very nice Aston's mooching through the town.
There are regularly 4 or 5 Cygnet's outside the factory these days and, if I'm being honest, I don't think they're that bad. Sure, it's not a traditional Aston, but let's not forget that a traditional Aston is a beast when it's working, and spends lots of time being fixed between times.
Reliable Aston's are a product of the Ford occupation. Ford made Aston's a usable proposition.
Whilst we're decrying the styling, could I just mention two words? Lagonda and Bulldog... Awful cars (although I'd quite like a Lagonda). Aston have been responsible for some really terrible styling decisions over the years, as much as they've produced simple, elegant designs.
Anyway, I have a 12 year old daughter, and I reckon that by the time she has a license, one of these will be a realistic proposition as a first car, and as it's Japanese it's likely to still be working and in one piece - I have a friend who restores vintage Aston's and the state of the bodyshell's after relatively few years is shocking at times.
Absolutely correct. Unfortunately, Ford had to divest itself of marginal businesses when its' credit rating started to plummet, and no credit insurers would cover them.
Aston Martin could have disappeared without trace at that point, but Dave Richards, a man not known for making poor business decisions, took the plunge, along with his backers, and Aston Martin became a stand-alone car manufacturer. Based in the EU. Which meant, like it or not, that they were forced to comply with the mass of EU regulations, among which was the requirement to meet an emissions target across the range. Had they remained as part of Ford, ironically, they would not have needed to find themselves a low emissions model in order to balance the emissions book.
Small, low-emission cars are prohibitively expensive to produce, so there was really no alternative other than a re-badging exercise. And I don't suppose that anybody on the Aston Martin board wanted to devalue the brand with a cheap, mass-produced offering, so a bespoke interpretation of a small town car makes a sort of sense.
Overpriced and awkward looking it may be. But it just might have kept Aston Martin production in Britain. And for that, at least, we should be grateful.
Regards
Ian
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
Just had a quick look on autotrader. 2011 models are 20k, so thats 1/3 in a year off.
I saw one of these in the wild for the first time the other day.
To see the AM badge on a smart car was very peculiar, to say the least!!
However I do understand the reasons why they've done it...
http://www.theautoindustrieblog.com/...ed-galore.html
A Hondrover, lol!
Wow, I'd never heard of that one.
Complete waste of money, aimed rich basterds buying something for the little woman
I know a little about this subject.
The 2012-15 target of 130g co2 / km (as an average across it's fleet) is only subjected to manufactures who sell more than 10,000 vehicles per year. Manufacturers who fall outside of this negotiate their own targets.. AND the targets are different for different manufactures because there is also formulae used according to the fleet average weight so for example Fiat will have a target less than 130g but Daimler will have heigher.
The fine for every g co2 / km over this limit will be 95 euros for each vehicle sold.
It is proposed that this target will get thougher with a 95g co2/km by 2020
IMHO what AM have done here is pretty pointless in this instance and almost sticks up two fingers to the aspirations of the legislation. If there is a manufacturer to admire with thier R&D and the improvements made then I like what BMW are doing as they seem to be taking this seriously. Their 'Efficient Dynamics' is available pretty much across their range now so rather than throw in a ridiculous vehicle in the mix (okay i know they are still going to launch the 3-series EV, but that aside...) their approach seems to be: more aerodynamic (and other tehnological advances taken from motorsport like KERS) more powerful; and faster / safer BUT still even better fuel economy that the previous generation. Everyone is a winner, yes? I've have been given a little inside knowledge as to where in the future it's thought BMW will go and that is they will move back towards smaller petrol engines (replacing some of the more popular diesels) with turbo and twin turbo chargers. But this remains to be seen.
If you are really interested in this subject then the best document I can point you too is this...http://www.transportenvironment.org/...port_final.pdf
...which is an annually updated report written by a peer organisation to ours.
Last edited by Stuart D; 18th October 2012 at 20:44.
Posting Permissions
