Some IWC Mark XI facts and trivia

[Crusader]

I was recently re-reading the fascinating article on the IWC Mark XI aviation watch (see http://www.iwc.ch/lecture/library/_pdf/mark11a-en.pdf ? requires free registration on the IWC website).

There are a few facts and trivia that I found surprising, and worthy of repeating here:

Did you know that ...


The "Mark XI" was really the "Mark 11". The British armed forces "Mark" numbering system went to Arabic numerals after the end of WWII, and the Mark-system was discontinued after the Mark XI. The Australians stuck with the Roman numerals, though. The Mark XI is also known as the 6B/346.

The "Mark XI" was originally purchased from both IWC and JLC, but the RAF was dissatisfied with the JLC version (no shock protection) and discontinued buying them, leaving IWC as the sole RAF supplier. Ca. 2'000 watches were procured from JLC in 1949, and ca. 7'400 from IWC between 1949 and 1953. All JLCs were decommissioned before 1963, and the IWC watches in 1981. In 1973, the Mark XI was downgraded to "navigator's watch secondary type".

The specification for the Mark XI stipulated chronometer accuracy. The watches were regulated in five positions and at least two temperatures over a two-week period at the Chronometer Workshop of the Royal Greenwich Observatory in Herstmonceux, and kept in sealed storage for 12, later 18 months, and then re-regulated, whether they had been used on the flightline or not. The precision expected of the Mark XI and the care taken in its maintenance make the Mark XI a much closer relative to the German B-Uhren of WWII than the mass-produced American A-11, A-17, DTU 2A/P and GG-W-113 watches of significantly lower accuracy.

Only aircrew navigators were originally issued the Mark XI (another parallel to the German B-Uhren), and if there were enough to go around, first pilots and captains could be issued them as well. Other aircrew, like flight engineers, received the lower-spec'ed Omega 53s and older Omegas.

The Mark XI was specifically designed for astronavigation which had become a feasible option only with the wide-spread introduction of the "bubble sextant" in the early 1940s.

The requirement for anti-magnetic shielding (and anti-magnetic hands, by the way) stemmed from the use of an airborne terrain-mapping radar (H2S) in the final phase of the war. Its huge magnetic field output negatively affected the aviation watches (Mk. VII=6B/159 and Mk. VIII=6B/234) then in use. Likewise the requirement to secure the crystal against the loss of outside pressure came about with the introduction of cabin pressurization towards the end of WWII when older watches "popped" crystals during rapid depressurization (e.g. when the cabin was hit by a shell fragment). Increased altitude, and therefore increasingly cold temperatures, affected the accuracy of the Mk. VII and VIII watches. A steel case was required as the chrome-plated brass or alloy cases then in use did not fare well in use over salt water and in humid climates.

The bonklip bracelet (6B/2763) was originally standard issue on the Mark XI. It was discontinued in favor of the standard nylon NATO strap (6B/2617) in 1954, but re-introduced in 1956 as an alternative to the NATO. There are reports on Mark XI on long leather straps, but they are uncorroborated. Either way, the standard NATO strap (I don't know which color, though) is quite a correct period strap for the Mark XI.


Helpful Links:
http://www.fortunecity.com/olympia/w...79/Mark.XI.htm


Any additions or corrections are very much welcome!

[doug darter]

Thanks Crus,

Always nice to read about these beautiful pieces.

[swanbourne]

Excellent piece Crusader, along with this and the navigator's watch article I'm guessing it was a slack day at the office today? :wink:

Eddie

[chrisb]

The bonklip bracelet (6B/2763) was originally standard issue on the Mark XI. It was discontinued in favor of the standard nylon NATO strap (6B/2617) in 1954, but re-introduced in 1956 as an alternative to the NATO. There are reports on Mark XI on long leather straps, but they are uncorroborated. Either way, the standard NATO strap (I don't know which color, though) is quite a correct period strap for the Mark XI.

Griff please take note :wink:

[abraxas]

Thanks Crusader. As you say, one can never get enough of these watches. In the days before electronic chronometry, the IWC was the watch to have in a tight situation. As you know I bought one at some point in the past but I wasn?t wearing it much as I found the shape (and size) to be very bland and uninspiring. There are far more exciting shapes out there. But in terms of chronometry for the common man, the Mk XI is probably at the peak.

You are right about them being the B-Uhren equivalents ... but the Bs had flair and an ?in your face? presence. I wore my Laco re-issue on and off for over 3 years, whereas I wore the real Mk XI twice.

john


PS I have a surprise for you, in relation to some of the above ... but I cannot say yet. Soon.

[rfrazier]

Any idea of the number of IWCs still in circulation? Or, even, whether, with deep enough pockets, they can still be had?

Best wishes,
Bob

[Foggy]

Or, even, whether, with deep enough pockets, they can still be had?

Hi Bob

A nice IXC Mk II can be bought for circa £2k. Not too difficult to find, so still a fair few about.

Cheers

Foggy

[rfrazier]

Or, even, whether, with deep enough pockets, they can still be had?

Hi Bob

A nice IXC Mk II can be bought for circa £2k. Not too difficult to find, so still a fair few about.

Cheers

Foggy

Thanks, Foggy!

Best wishes,
Bob

[Foggy]

I'd love to own the IWC Mk II but don't have the cash :cry: Still, I've always got my "inferior" JLC Mk II as a substitute :wink:



Cheers

Foggy

[Crusader]

Or, even, whether, with deep enough pockets, they can still be had?

Hi Bob

A nice IXC Mk II can be bought for circa £2k. Not too difficult to find, so still a fair few about.

Cheers

Foggy

But prices for very good specimens can go up to ? 7k. :shock:

I hope my own Mk. MCXLVIII homage to the Mark 11 will come cheaper, a lot cheaper. :wink:

[Crusader]

Thanks Crusader. As you say, one can never get enough of these watches. In the days before electronic chronometry, the IWC was the watch to have in a tight situation. As you know I bought one at some point in the past but I wasn?t wearing it much as I found the shape (and size) to be very bland and uninspiring. There are far more exciting shapes out there. But in terms of chronometry for the common man, the Mk XI is probably at the peak.

You are right about them being the B-Uhren equivalents ... but the Bs had flair and an ?in your face? presence. I wore my Laco re-issue on and off for over 3 years, whereas I wore the real Mk XI twice.

The Mark XI has always been the epitome of the wristwatch for me, both in the combination of technical features (accuracy, ruggedness, antimagnetic protection, secured crystal ...) and in style ... I have maintained that the elegant and purposeful Mark XI dial is the "perfect" dial (for me) for more than 15 years now. :)

[Tinker]

Which calibre was the IWC XI/11?

[Crusader]

Which calibre was the IWC XI/11?

All IWC Mark XI had IWC caliber 89.

[Omega53]

Funny just sold the IWC today:

[Foggy]

But prices for very good specimens can go up to ? 7k

Anyone asking that sort of price is crazy :shock:

Here's one currently on sale from a reputable UK seller - a fiver short of £2k.



Cheers

Foggy

[sundial]

In 1997 I bought an IWC Mk XI in a Peterborough junk shop for £22 after knocking down the price from £25. It had Fleet Air Arm markings on the back. In those days I was not a seroius collector but I knew that IWC was a 'fairly good make' ... thus was gobsmacked when I saw the IWC MkXI replica advertised regularly as a photo insert in The Times financial pages/share prices section for in excess of £1000. In 2000 I was a bit 'skint 'and took it to Sothebys in London for entry in their watch sale ... and I was given an estimate of £1500 . On sale day it failed to reach the reserve and was 'bought-in' ... and I received approx £500 from the proceeds after commission and cost of catalogue photos.

Of course I regret ever selling it now I know a bit more about the model and military watch history. But I bought Eddie's replica in 2002.

In 1975 I chucked a similar JLC www in the dustbin as the hands kept falling off ... I knew very little about watches in those days. The JLC had been bought from Keys Govt. Store in Gorleston on Sea for £5 in 1968.

We all make mistakes ... and have a few equally silly stories I expect?

Duncan

[davec]

I loved reading this thread, and got the chills looking at some of those pics.

I keep wondering why JLC never brought out an homage/re-issue considering the success that IWC has had with their line. I'd line up for a pronto, credit card be damned.

[Tinker]

Which calibre was the IWC XI/11?

All IWC Mark XI had IWC caliber 89.

Now I remember! Of course they did! So, it was the Mark X that had the superior calibre 83.

[Crusader]

I loved reading this thread, and got the chills looking at some of those pics.

I keep wondering why JLC never brought out an homage/re-issue considering the success that IWC has had with their line. I'd line up for a pronto, credit card be damned.

Given their present line, I would imagine JLC are rather embarrassed about "their" Mark XI ... and at least the RAF considered it insufficient enough to phase it out early. Not really something to build a homage on ... besides, IWC had a kind of aviation "theme" in its history, with the B-Uhren/Marks IX and X, Mark XI, and what went into the Ingenieur.

[Crusader]

And speaking of IWC homages/Frankens, there is this thread on MWR.

What they did is very similar to what I am proposing for my Mk. MCXLVIII, i.e. take a PRS-53, a Yao hands set ... except that they took an original IWC dial, which I believe is crossing the line. I prefer to use a sterile Yao dial so that the watch will not have any outside markings lest it be mistaken for eiother an IWC, or a Precista.



http://www.mwrforum.net/cgi-bin/mwr.pl?read=140293

[Omega53]

Far better movement,

Nicer more comftable case and only 2900 ever made including RAF and RNAF etc..

The JLC is a very underated watch, thats why I have kept mine and decided to sell the IWC to fund other watch purchases.

Another piece of useless information I believe the IWC used to cost the goverment £77.00 new in 1948. Thats one hell of a price.

The JLC will soon be one of the most sought after military watches, apparently they made less than 2000 military Rolex submariner 5513 / 5517. The movements do not even start to compare to the superb quality of the JLC.

Besided that I am sure IWC and JLC belong to the same company, they wouldent want to start making competition for each other.

Just my thoughts..

[Crusader]

The MKXI JLC is the far superior watch to the IWC

Far better movement,

Nicer more comftable case and only 2900 ever made including RAF and RNAF etc..

The JLC is a very underated watch, thats why I have kept mine and decided to sell the IWC to fund other watch purchases.

Ah, but now you are talking scarcity and the collector's value, which is something completely different from technical merit (and aesthetics is a third, unrelated, aspect) ... The fact is that for RAF operational purposes, the JLC was founbd wanting compared to the IWC. Does that make the IWC more valuable for collectors? No. Does that mean that it is the more beautiful watch? No. But it can make the IWC the "better" watch (technology-wise speaking only, of course). :)

[Foggy]

Ah, but now you are talking scarcity and the collector's value, which is something completely different from technical merit (and aesthetics is a third, unrelated, aspect) ... The fact is that for RAF operational purposes, the JLC was founbd wanting compared to the IWC. Does that make the IWC more valuable for collectors? No. Does that mean that it is the more beautiful watch? No. But it can make the IWC the "better" watch (technology-wise speaking only, of course).

Interesting, though, that the original "facts" come from an IWC site.

Something a little less biased would be my preferred basis of judgement :wink:

Cheers

Foggy

[Omega53]

All very true Martin,

Im just trying to give the little guy (JLC) a hand,

I think its a very undervalued watch. One I love wearing.

If you havent seen it before read http://www.markeleven.com a great review on the MK XI watches.

Regards.

[Crusader]

If you havent seen it before read http://www.markeleven.com a great review on the MK XI watches.

A much recommended website. :)

[abraxas]

I loved reading this thread, and got the chills looking at some of those pics.

I keep wondering why JLC never brought out an homage/re-issue considering the success that IWC has had with their line. I'd line up for a pronto, credit card be damned.

Given their present line, I would imagine JLC are rather embarrassed about "their" Mark XI ... and at least the RAF considered it insufficient enough to phase it out early. Not really something to build a homage on ... besides, IWC had a kind of aviation "theme" in its history, with the B-Uhren/Marks IX and X, Mark XI, and what went into the Ingenieur.

Pity this site was closed down ... http://www.jlcsociety.com/

I wonder if 'official' JLC had anything to do with the closure? All these 'officials' better watch out ... WISes have long (and more often than not, wrong :shock: ) memories.

john

[Crusader]

I find the relationship between watch company and the fora of (albeit admittedly critical) devotees strangely strained. :?