Marine issued Tornek-Rayville

I noticed this fantastic watch and thought, that I would post it here.

These type of vintage watch really speaks to me and this model especially has stood the test of time - not least in the visual department.

I like the story about how the US Marine traded 3 BMG mounts for this rare watch.

I dont know about you, but I would very much like to find one of these and make a trade as well.


Pics & info by kind permission of
Brian Dumais
Nhbarn@comcast.net

"I wanted to share with you a new watch that i picked up this week. I flew down to florida on Monday and drove to Georgia and met a retired US Marine that traded 3 50 Cal mounts for a tr-900 in late '60's in Vietnam. Here are some photos of the watch and some other extras. This is probably the best and earliest photo of a tr-900 worn by a soldier. Brian"

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/m...ekrayville.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/m...krayville2.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/m...krayville3.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/m...krayville4.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/m...krayville5.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/m...krayville6.jpg

It's a lovely watch Jesper, it's always been on my list of "must haves".......... One day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quite a find

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Originally Posted by seadog1408

It's a lovely watch Jesper, it's always been on my list of "must haves".......... One day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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You would most likely take it diving, Mike.

Just to let it back in its proper element.:redface-new:

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Originally Posted by gray

Quite a find

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Indeed.

Very rare.

I have seen numbers as low as 20 quoted. Dont hold me to that number how ever.

From an article by James Dowling on the military diver's watch:

1960s – The Tornek-RayvillePrior to the Second World War, the US Navy had no mine protection divers but seeing the problems the British encountered, they sent some naval volunteers to the UK before the US entered the war. In June 1941, these veterans returned to form the first class in what was originally named the Mine Recovery School. Officers and enlisted personnel entered the eleven-week school, qualifying as Mine Recovery Personnel/Second Class Divers. During WWII the school produced hundreds of divers trained in removing mines both at sea and on the beaches. But once WWII was over and the ‘Cold War’ began, the US found itself at a major disadvantage up against the Soviet Union. The Soviets did not have a major fleet during the war, but did develop a very advanced use of naval mines to protect its own shores and also to hamper the movement of the enemy’s vessels. They had a long history of using naval mines; in fact during the Russo-Japanese war of 1904, the only naval success they achieved was the sinking of two Japanese battleships by mines.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/m...krayville7.jpg


The Germans had the most advanced mine technology during WWII and many of their technicians and plants found themselves in the Soviet zone after the war ended and soon found themselves in the service of the Soviets.What this meant that the US Navy in the 1960s was up against the World’s most formidable mine technology, and the Soviets had no qualms about passing on this technology to their client states, such as China, North Korea and North Vietnam.
To counter this threat the Navy retrained their divers as Explosive Ordnance Disposal Units concentrating on keeping harbours and waterways clear and free for US Navy and allied vessels. But, with the rise in new technology mines, utilising multiple fuses, operated by pressure, time, contact or magnetic influence it was obvious that the Navy needed new equipment and amongst that equipment there was a requirement for a new diver’s watch.
The naval specification MIL-W-2217.6A(SHIPS) called for a watch capable of operating at depths of up to 400 ft, with an accuracy of at least 30 seconds a day and also to have absolutely no magnetic signature at all. Under the ‘Buy American Act’ the specification went to all of the major US watch companies; Elgin, Bulova, Hamilton and Waltham. However, as the initial request was for only 1,000 watches, none of them thought that the contract could be fulfilled profitably and that the challenges involved in the construction and testing were too demanding. However there was one American company who thought that they had a chance, Allen Tornek was the US importer for the Rayville Watch Company, of Villeret, Switzerland who made watches under the Blancpain name and also watches for department stores and other retail jewellers which did not have their own manufacturing facilities. Tornek & Rayville were interested for a couple of reasons; to both of them an order of 1,000 watches was a substantial one and they had a head start over the other companies in that Rayville were already manufacturing a diver’s watch in the Blancpain ‘Fifty Fathoms’.
But the requirement to make the watch completely amagnetic (an anti magnetic watch is one where the movement is protected from outside magnetic influences, whilst an amagnetic watch is one that has no parts in it that can be influenced by magnetism) was the major challenge. This required that special steel for the case be imported from Sweden; this steel had a completely different composition to the normal stainless steel used for watch cases and the compromise that this entailed was the steel was nowhere near as corrosion resistant.
Sourcing the special steel used was a minor problem compared to making the internals of the watch amagnetic, this involved making the escapement from hardened brass rather than steel; the balance spring also could not have been made from steel, but I have not yet been able to discover what material was used in its place.
It took almost 2 years from the initial enquiry before the Navy got their first watches, and when they did they went initially to the EODU guys and afterwards to other naval divers. The watch they received was quite different from the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms. Firstly, it did not bear the name ‘Blancpain’ anywhere on the watch, the entire watch case was finished with a grained matt surface making it completely reflection proof and the dial luminous was neither Radium nor Tritium, rather it used Promethium 147. Promethium has several advantages over both the other commonly used isotopes; it emits many more particles than either of them, meaning the luminous indices would glow brighter and longer, both underwater and at night. However the downside to this was that its half-life is only 2.5 years, unlike Tritium, which has a 12.4-year half-life, and Radium whose half-life is measured in centuries. Obviously this short half-life would have been unacceptable in a civilian watch, but the Navy had different requirements.
The initial order was for 780 watches (at $187.50 each) and the last of them were delivered in June 1965, a few months later another order for slightly fewer than 300 was received but that was it for the Navy. Two years later Mr. Tornek approached the Navy asking if they needed any more watches, but as the Vietnam conflict was at its height, the Navy had other things on their mind and told him that they didn’t think that they would need any more. So the special production line was dismantled, and the external suppliers (dial and steel companies) were told that their services were no longer needed. But, if you will remember, I mentioned that Promethium 147 had a half-life of only 2.5 years; this meant that only five years after the first watches were made they would now be down to 25% of their initial luminous output. But when the Navy approached Tornek about obtaining replacement dials, they were told that there were no more and that there was no chance of getting any more. So, as the dials became dimmer and the watches became less useful they were returned to the naval stores. However, once they got into the stores they were doomed, because the rear of each case had been stamped “DANGER Radioactive Material” and a large radioactive symbol. Under naval rules, they were sent back to the Atomic Energy Commission in the US, where they were disposed of as low-level atomic waste. They were placed in containers with other low-level waste (uniforms, badges, pipework etc) and the containers were filled with concrete and then buried deep underground at sites in deserted areas of the US. The watches were very low production items to begin with (just over 1,000 units made) and many must have been lost by divers whilst being used and most of the rest were destroyed by the Government. This means that the Tornek Rayville TR-900 may well be one of the rarest of all military watches; current research believes that there to be only about 20 known examples extant. This makes the watch shown here extra special as it remained at Rayville for 40 years and never went either to Tornek or to the US Navy and so shows the finish that these watches had when new.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/m...krayville8.jpg


In the early 1970s the very last of the TR-900s were withdrawn from service in the US navy and went off for destruction; their replacement was the Tudor 7928. Ironically the 7928 was essentially the Rolex 5513 with an ETA movement and the next watch we are to discuss is the most famous version of the 5513.

The Military Diver’s Watch – A Revisionist View by JAMES DOWLING
http://www.timezone.com/2012/07/07/t...james-dowling/

Wow! Thank you for posting such an amazing piece of information. And the watch isn't bad, either of course.

Great post about such an interesting and rare watch together with the provenance.

I've had the privilege of meeting James Dowling and handling/wearing (very briefly) his TR-900, as pictured above.
One of the most iconic military watches ever, IMHO.

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Originally Posted by bmpf

Wow! Thank you for posting such an amazing piece of information. And the watch isn't bad, either of course.

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Originally Posted by Neil.C

Great post about such an interesting and rare watch together with the provenance.

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Thanks.

The Tornek-Rayville certainly made an impression me also.

When I read this, I had visions of GPS positions and WIS with jackhammers hacking away at conrete in the desert:

They were placed in containers with other low-level waste (uniforms, badges, pipework etc) and the containers were filled with concrete and then buried deep underground at sites in deserted areas of the US.

Well, I've learnt something today because I didn't even know these existed. Amazing.

Well Tony, you know the BlancPain Fifty Fathoms and the PRS-50 - this is in the same style. Some say, that the TR was based on the FF.

For many of those into MIL watches, this is one of the top grails. It all depends on what kind of watches you are into, I guess.

There have been various homage watches*, but if they are not really to your liking, I can understand how the TR passed you by.

Its horses for courses. I must admit to be a big fan.

I'm of course never going to own a TR, but as Mike mentioened above; one can dream!:adoration:


*MKII and the now defunct Corvus amongst them.

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Originally Posted by WatchScout

Well Tony, you know the BlancPain Fifty Fathoms and the PRS-50 - this is in the same style. Some say, that the TR was based on the FF.

For many of those into MIL watches, this is one of the top grails. It all depends on what kind of watches you are into, I guess.

There have been various homage watches*, but if they are not really to your liking, I can understand how the TR passed you by.

Its horses for courses. I must admit to be a big fan.

I'm of course never going to own a TR, but as Mike mentioened above; one can dream!:adoration:


*MKII and the now defunct Corvus amongst them.

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yes, I was aware of the FF of course and do like it a lot even if it's a bit large for my wrist (I actually tried a PRS-50 to get a feel for the shape/style) but generally speaking I've never been really drawn to the milwatch thing. Although for some reason I do periodically check to see whether there's a nice old CWC (maybe even a chrono) knocking about anywhere as I like their simplicity. I guess this one is for the hard-core mil collectors.

Beautiful, I'd take one of these over a vintage Rolex any day.

I gave up looking for a TR when I heard the last one went for $45,000!

Eeeek, thats a fair bit of dosh!

Im not entertaining the idea, that I'll ever get a TR either.

Now there is a way to get the historic design at a much more favourable price! :)

I really like mine and all the connection between the current and former release

https://i.ibb.co/PmGnKRY/IMG-9998.png
https://i.ibb.co/9Ydrm3t/IMG-9999.png
https://i.ibb.co/rcVhc5K/IMG-0002.png
https://i.ibb.co/FsY91Rv/IMG-0001.png
https://i.ibb.co/KVCzPsW/IMG-0003.png
https://i.ibb.co/zsMLxsw/IMG-0004.png

the vintage papers corresponding with the new ones. nice touch!
https://i.ibb.co/3W7NLsP/tornek-rayv...ns-vintage.jpg

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Originally Posted by tmoris

Now there is a way to get the historic design at a much more favourable price! :)

I really like mine and all the connection between the current and former release

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I like the aesthetics of that, nice touch with the paperwork as well etc. More of a homage / trademark revival than a reissue, but certainly an attractive watch all the same :sneakiness: