Rolex Sub Date 116610 97P5R819 ** NOW SUSPECTED TO BE FAKE **

Reported stolen in a smash & grab at a Liverpool pawnbrokers (not connected to your correspondent) earlier today, 23rd June 2017 :

Rolex Submariner 116610 - 97P5R819

Update : please note, new evidence suggests this was a fake watch and that there may be others with the same number in circulation. If you come across one, it may thus be fake but not stolen.

I must now ask anyone needing more detail regarding each specific watch that I list here to contact me directly, as it has become clear that a commercial third party is harvesting information from this forum rather than going about its business in a transparent and professional way.

You know who you are. Consider this a slap across the legs with an Omega catalogue. Next time it'll be a Panerai box.

Haywood

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

You know who you are. Consider this a slap across the legs with an Omega catalogue. Next time it'll be a Panerai box.

Haywood

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A perfect gent, even when telling someone off :-)

Sat here doing some paperwork this morning.
Sun shining on my lovely Rolex submariner 116710
I'm looking at the Rehaut and see the serial number ,so decided to google search "Rolex 97P5R819 and this thread comes up..

What to do ?

Sorry it's definitely a sub 116610

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speedypro1111

Sorry it's definitely a sub 116610

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Please explain?


mike

116610 not 116710

So are you saying you have this Rolex Submariner 116610 - 97P5R819 ​on your wrist?

I am confused by your post, Speeedypro1111.

Are you making a point (that I am missing), or have you genuinely got a Rolex bearing that case number?

Thankyou,

Haywood

Yes I put it on yesterday after work
Don't wear a watch at work as it would be destroyed

Speedypro1111, the number was provided to me directly by one of the owners of the business hit by the smash and grab yesterday.

It is incredible that you happened to to a google search of your case number the very same day that I posted the same case number, that had just been reported to belong to a watch that had been stolen hours before. Something is wrong here.

Would you please contact me either through the private message facility here, or (if Eddie will forgive me under the circumstances) on info@miltonaires.com ?

Do you have the warranty card with your watch, showing the same number, and could you also take a macro image of the case number on the watch itself?

It will be very helpful to nail whatever is going on here quickly.

Thankyou,

Haywood

Haywood ...
Should I send the watch back to Liverpool or China?
;-) I'm fully aware of this forums thoughts on counterfeit watches
And usually don't bother with the forum but after the sun blasting on my fake this morning and reading the serial number
I expected google to bring up loads of fake subs ,
Nope just this thread .... I can't imagine the Chinese changing they're tooling to alter every serial number ,can you ?

Ok I'm a troll now ... sorry
I was just pointing out that my fake and probably countless others bear this serial number
My suspicion is the stolen watch isn't all it seems ?
But hey ho have it your way I'm a troll

I haven't called you a troll, Speedypro111.

The other pawnbroker could indeed have been mistaken about the watch and I would like to find out if this is so.

Please, if you have a watch with that number on would you be so good as to send me a scan of the numbered rehaut, and the warranty card if it was supplied with one?

Not many pawnbrokers have the skills they need to identify incorrect watches and if this is what was taken from that business then I'd like to help clear it up.

Thankyou,

Haywood

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aramis9

tool.............. troll............... ignored.

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This is one of the reasons I don't bother with this forum I suppose
Yes I love watches and own genuine omegas/Rolex etc
But wear a fake occasionally but I don't try pass it off as other than what it is
I'd sooner have this robbed of my wrist than one of my other watches
Muppet

Sorry Haywood ... it wasn't aimed at you personally
I was only trying to point out that I think it could be fake

If it is a serial number used on fakes, then why is this the only thread that comes up in a Google search for that number?
Something isn't right here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speedypro1111

Sorry Haywood ... it wasn't aimed at you personally
I was only trying to point out that I think it could be fake

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Ok, forgive me pressing the point but this is a serious matter :

1) Please confirm whether you do or do not have a watch bearing that case number.

2) If not, why do you think that this particular watch could be a fake, with any greater relevance or likelihood than any other?

Thankyou,

Haywood

Haywood I purchased the watch from china about a year ago
I could prove this with bank statements/email etc
Mine is definitely fake ... is the stolen one fake ?
Have they got warranty cards etc ?
I only got the watch alone

Haywood I will pm you

I refer you to my previous posts, which are the only way to establish this now. I can see why questions have been asked about your posts and I am inviting you to provide definite detail and the evidence which is easily produced so that I can act on it if necessary.

To summarise, here are the three points beyond which further discussion would currently be meaningless :

Do you have a watch with this case number on, or not ?

Is so, would you please provide a macro image of the number on the rehaut ?

If you do not, why should there be any merit in raising the possibility that the watch could be fake, in this instance any more than another?

Thankyou,

Haywood

Haywood.... done ?
Can you confirm by email /pm or on here
Like I said something not right and I've nothing to hide

So did the pawnbroker take in a watch that was actually fake and then have it stolen in a smash and grab ?

Emails received and I will reply by pm - thankyou Speedypro1111.

Gentleman, it now appears that the other pawnbroker may indeed have had a fake watch stolen from them. What a mess! Perhaps lovely at least to think what will happen if the thieves try to sell it to someone who knows what they're doing!

I will update the title to the thread now.

Haywood

- - - Updated - - -

Quote:

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Originally Posted by -Ally-

So did the pawnbroker take in a watch that was actually fake and then have it stolen in a smash and grab ?

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This looks likely! I have spoken with them since receiving Speedypro1111's direct email.

Haywood

Thankyou Haywood ... your a gentleman
Glad to be of help and hope we can clear this matter up

ha jesus couldnt make it up.

Can you get a pic of yours up Speedie? :eagerness:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speedypro1111

Thankyou Haywood ... your a gentleman
Glad to be of help and hope we can clear this matter up

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I confess that I had my doubts about what you were writing (I had not, of course, seen this watch at my competitor's store), but am grateful that you persisted and sent me what you did.

- - - Updated - - -

Quote:

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Originally Posted by southerner101

ha jesus couldnt make it up.

Can you get a pic of yours up Speedie? :eagerness:

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He sent it to me.

H

Quote:

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Originally Posted by southerner101

ha jesus couldnt make it up.

Can you get a pic of yours up Speedie? :eagerness:

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I don't know how to do this on here mate
In all honesty I'm thinking I should have kept my mouth shut also ... lol
I'm expecting the police any minute
The stolen watch is fake I'm telling you all
Mine even has fake 3135 movement adjusts and winds the same a a real one
It would be hard to tell without taking the back off and a trained eye

I just want to see what a fake Sub looks like for general interest. I know you two got there in the end :eagerness:

I thought what a wind up at first! power of the forum :angel: great stuff!

Perhaps Haywood could post pic ?

After reading this thread I am non the wiser.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speedypro1111

I'm thinking I should have kept my mouth shut also

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I think you've done well posting on this thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speedypro1111

I don't know how to do this on here mate
In all honesty I'm thinking I should have kept my mouth shut also ... lol
I'm expecting the police any minute
The stolen watch is fake I'm telling you all
Mine even has fake 3135 movement adjusts and winds the same a a real one
It would be hard to tell without taking the back off and a trained eye

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I nearly put a hammer to my laptop trying to upload pics before so join the club! I held a fake GMT years back and made my toes curl. Had a see through case back :spam1:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by seikopath

I think you've done well posting on this thread.

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Thanks.... here's me thinking I was a troll
At least it gets my post count up
I know what I have and how long I've had it ...
I've nothing to hide and just wanted to clear things up

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speedypro1111

Thanks.... here's me thinking I was a troll
At least it gets my post count up
I know what I have and how long I've had it ...
I've nothing to hide and just wanted to clear things up

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Post count up... Less than a hundred posts in five years... Must try harder!!!
Have a great weekend mate

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ibby7

After reading this thread I am non the wiser.

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Put simply :

Pawnbroker in my area suffered a smash and grab yesterday.

One of the owners rang me and gave me the case number of a Rolex Submariner that had been stolen.

I reported the watch's number to the normal places, which includes posting the details here.

Speedypro1111 reported that the number matched his watch, which he knows to be fake.

Speedypro1111 was doubted by many, including me.

Speedypro1111 privately sent me photographic proof that I have every reason to believe acceptable.

The evidence now suggests that the case number is one used by fakers and that the watch stolen from the pawnbroker was, in fact, itself fake.

Here is the image which Speedypro1111 sent me --- in what was a series of very helpful, frank, courteous and open emails.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...psj6r4dbc1.jpg

H

Thankyou Haywood
I'm not sure I'm keen on the idea of being arrested for a stolen fake Rolex ;-)

if it saves anyone else getting caught out ive done the right thing ... I think ?

Couple of q's for you haywood. I'm pretty ignorant in these matters but always open to learning more.

In your opinion, is the pawnbroker the sort of outfit that would not be taken in by a fake ?

From what you've seen in the photos, how good a fake is it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speedypro1111

Thankyou Haywood
I'm not sure I'm keen on the idea of being arrested for a stolen fake Rolex ;-)

if it saves anyone else getting caught out ive done the right thing ... I think ?

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You know my thoughts: that you did the right thing, that I was wrong to doubt you at first but that you certainly have nothing to worry about for your own part.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by seikopath

Couple of q's for you haywood. I'm pretty ignorant in these matters but always open to learning more.

In your opinion, is the pawnbroker the sort of outfit that would not be taken in by a fake ?

From what you've seen in the photos, how good a fake is it?

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They are decent people I have known all my professional life.

They would never knowingly touch such a watch, but very few pawnbrokers can specialise in Rolex watches to the extent that I believe is required.

H

I've emailed you again Haywood proving everything I said
Regards

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speedypro1111

I've emailed you again Haywood proving everything I said
Regards

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Quite unnecessarily!

With your permission I will post the extra images here for the benefit of others. Thanks again!

H

Granted ;-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

They are decent people I have known all my professional life.

They would never knowingly touch such a watch, but very few pawnbrokers can specialise in Rolex watches to the extent that I believe is required.

H

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Can you tell it's a fake from the photos, and if so, what are the tells?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by seikopath

Can you tell it's a fake from the photos, and if so, what are the tells?

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Personally I don't like the bezel markings, rehaut markings, hands or dial indices.

UPDATE : I'm normally the last person interested in posts about fakes, but in this particular thread members may like to see these additional pics kindly sent to me by Speedypro1111. There is now a longer list of incorrect elements to be noted...

FAKE :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...ps26fzeopg.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...pslonnvk3u.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...psfyrno1ow.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...pskzneldzz.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...psbdxp8hdg.jpg

H

Wow, that's a good fake. Thanks for the info.

blimey... Very hard to tell.

I dont like the quality of the engraved rehaut as edges look sharp and a bit rough... other then that very hard to tell!!

What a confusing tale!
Thanks for clarification,HM
I think edits and updates confuse it more:-)

I wonder how the pawnbrokers insurance will handle this when (if?) they find out the stolen watch was actually a dud.

Would the shop have any comeback on the person who sold them it ? Especially now it's not even in the shops possession
How could they prove the person sold them a fake ?
If you could keep us informed , I for one would like to know the outcome

What have I done ? Why did I reply this morning, I've spent the rest of the day wanting to buy a hulk "genuine "
Am now considering moving 2 watches on and buying one

Quote:

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Originally Posted by -Ally-

I wonder how the pawnbrokers insurance will handle this when (if?) they find out the stolen watch was actually a dud.

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I know the owners. Please do not doubt for a moment that a watch subsequently thought to be fake would be claimed for.

Any FCA Approved Person, such as one has to be, would risk losing that status for the sake of a single demonstration that they are not a Fit and Proper person...which would effectively remove them from control of the business.

Basic honesty, however, preceded that.

H