Strange ways of WISdom

I was just wearing this watch today and a thought entered my
mind. Actually more of a comparison.
On one hand there is the Speedy Tuesday -a limited edition of 2012 and fetching a premium anywhere between 80-200%. Who knows where it will settle. Needless to say, the demand is huge.
On the other hand is the Zenith Reissue Cronometro Tipo CP2, a limited edition of 1000 and much nicer looking IMO and a much loved movement.
I am certainly not knocking the Speedy and would buy it ina heartbeat at RRP but not at the premiums it is fetching.
The Zenith is available 30-40% below retail.
I personally find the Zenith more appealing but doubt if it is shared by majority.
What do you guys think?
And, a couple of obligatory pics

https://s13.postimg.org/qabpx5yfb/IMG_3630.jpg

https://s13.postimg.org/wpaqtu553/IMG_3631.jpg

Unsurprisingly I've not seen the Speedy Tuesday in the flesh but I did see the Zenith and the new Autavia side by side in Wos Heathrow.
The Autavia was blingy and ultimately cheap looking in comparison to the classy appeal of that Zenith - it really stood out in the case.

Zenith limited editions always seem to end up reduced on grey market while Speedy special editions seem to go over RRP - I know sweeping generalization.

I don't think this has anything to do with the merits of the watch just the expectations of collectors/dealers of turning a profit.

Mr Grimsdale.

I like that very much. Does it come on a bracelet?

The Zenith for me, no contest. I think it's a maddeningly good looking watch, and I love how faithful the reissue is to the original.

I think the Zenith is a better looking Watch, no messing around with reverse pandas and brushed cases. At first glance the Zenith reminded me of a Blancpain, which I suppose is praise indeed.

Zenith doing some good sh1t just now. Another that caught my eye was the heritage chrono 146 Blue. I love everything about it. Stunner
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...3b8cfe038d.jpg


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I think the ST Is a class act, but I'm really impressed by the Zenith. What do rhey retail for?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RustyBin5

Zenith doing some good sh1t just now. Another that caught my eye was the heritage chrono 146 Blue. I love everything about it. Stunner
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...3b8cfe038d.jpg


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Video review here:

https://youtu.be/Xko3wtQ_eCo

I was really taken by the new Zenith Defy El Primero 21 case design - the combination of the angular block with a round bezel like that is one of my favourite styles of watch design - shame that it's not done more often, and I really do hope that more manufacturers bring it back. None of the dials produced so far really does it for me, but I'm sure Zenith will get round to producing a real stunner. Oh yeah, and they need to add a bracelet, Breitling Jupiter Pilot-style.

Zenith gets my vote all the way. (I am biased of course!).

So much better at all levels - simple layout, 100wrt, no date, true to origins (even in way - but now houses the modern El Primero 36,600 movement).

Omega - so many iterations its just stupid now. I'd only get the original moon watch - but without the enormous box.

Two good watches for comparison Rajen, you're right. Both brands are known for being found discounted, but Omega marketing is clearly much more successful, especially with its LE models.

The Speedy Tuesday is a watch I missed out on. Then somebody offered me one at a premium. They haven't got back to me and I haven't chased them. I'd still buy one probably but it's more the intrigue of the watch now, than the watch itself I think. However, we all know there will be another LE around the corner, and I think the 60th anniversary models also look fantastic this year.

Your Zenith is lovely and at the money you probably paid, a very sensible purchase. I think we often get carried away with the cost of these trinkets of ours; in reality, it should be completely about the design and if it ultimately makes us feel happy wearing it. Clearly, the Zenith works well for you in this regard.

I much prefer the Zenith.

I like a Speedmaster, I own two, and have had half a dozen more over the years. But the endless limited editions just water down any appeal.

I sold my Alaska Project about 3-4 years ago, for far less than what it would go for now. I don't miss it one iota, so no tears shed.

This hobby is being over-run by speculators, and that just reinforces my opinion that there are many large speculative bubbles about to burst across the hobby.

When the bubble goes, it will usher in a return to classic icons. 39-41mm classics that have stood peerless over 50+ years.

Rolex Submariner, Daytona, GMT Master.

Omega Moonwatch (plain black dial). SMP, a true modern classic.

Patek Nautilus and Calatrava.

Zenith El Primero.

Breitling Navitimer (and I would add Aerospace here as a relative modern classic and my token quartz).

Thanks for sharing, I'd not seen that Zenith before. Quite difficult to pick one over the other when the #ST is selling near double the price you're saying the CP2 can be found for though, plus they're very different watches - the Zenith looks to be a fairly faithful reproduction, whereas the #ST is an amalgamation of favoured design elements from the past and some more contemporary treatments such as the sub-dial lume and the fully brushed case. Both good-looking watches.

As to the relative desirability, that's a hard one. I think as adults, and largely men, we like to fool ourselves sometimes that we're immune to to the influence of opinions and trends, but as an example you only have to look at the original snoopy model, which was indifferently received and could still be picked up from ADs long after it's release (discounted too I think?), but then it's subsequent desirability was based much more on rarity and the appeal of having something that other enthusiasts/collectors don't, more than a sudden appreciation of the design, I believe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RustyBin5

Zenith doing some good sh1t just now. Another that caught my eye was the heritage chrono 146 Blue. I love everything about it. Stunner
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...3b8cfe038d.jpg


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Looks great but very hard to actually tell the time on.

That sunburst blue dial is something to behold!


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Agree with the OP, the Zenith's a far more appealing watch. Another big pl,us is the fact that it ISN'T a much-hyped Omega.

Personally I find the whole Omega marketing hype nauseating. They're creating a faux collectors market IMO and I marvel at how folks are drawn into it. If the Speedy Tuesday had been just another addition to the range I doubt whether so many folks would be fawning over it (excited puppy behaviour).

I don`t own a Zenith but I`ve worked on a few; I`m always impressed by the quality, whether it's a more modern one or a 60s vintage watch.

Paul

Your Zenith is an amazing watch. I personally do not like Speedies

You make a good point Rajen, and that Zenith looks great.

The flavour of the month appeal of the latest special edition is inevitable, but you never know where they'll settle when they are no longer the new kid on the block, backed up by a ton of glossy exposure online. Some may become classics, others won't.

I was thinking about that the other day, looking at an Olympic special edition Omega. I wondered how it would feel, when you're no longer caught up in the excitement of the event, and it's commemorating a vague memory of summer a few years back. Unless you were actually competing, or made a big journey to be there, would the shine come off it a little? It depends on the design of course, and they may get their charm back eventually, a few decades later.

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Originally Posted by proby24

I much prefer the Zenith.

I like a Speedmaster, I own two, and have had half a dozen more over the years. But the endless limited editions just water down any appeal.

I sold my Alaska Project about 3-4 years ago, for far less than what it would go for now. I don't miss it one iota, so tears shed.

This hobby is being over-run by speculators, and that just reinforces my opinion that there are many large speculative bubbles about to burst across the hobby.

When the bubble goes, it will usher in a return to classic icons. 39-41mm classics that have stood peerless over 50+ years.

Rolex Submariner, Daytona, GMT Master.

Omega Moonwatch (plain black dial). SMP, a true modern classic.

Patek Nautilus and Calatrava.

Zenith El Primero.

Breitling Navitimer (and I would add Aerospace here as a relative modern classic and my token quartz).

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Therein lies the problem. Nobody outside of the hardcore WIS fraternity is in it for the watches themselves. Everybody is trying to make a few tax-free quid.

Good shout, Raj - its a better watch.

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Originally Posted by Backward point

Therein lies the problem. Nobody outside of the hardcore WIS fraternity is in it for the watches themselves. Everybody is trying to make a few tax-free quid.

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I'm not at all sure of that. Most non-WIS (I think someone on the forum described them the other day as "civilians") wouldn't have the faintest idea how to approach watches as a speculative investment and wouldn't try. What I see is a particular sub-set of our own WIS community who now appear obsessed with resale value and the opportunity to make money by buying and selling.

Take the infamous Speedy Tuesday... do you really think the speculators are non-WIS? The man in the street wouldn't have a clue...

Simon

A very nice watch and at £4500 makes it very good value.

Have to admit, it's a fantastic looking watch. I'd give it serious consideration at £4500 but at 43mm not something I could buy unseen as wearability for my wrist would depend on the lugs.

As for LE popularity, although yes Omega probably do too many you only have to look at the popularity of Omega compared to Zenith. To most non-WIS Zenith barely registers on their radar and even for enthusiasts take a look at the size of Omega Forums compared to Zenith.

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Originally Posted by mycroft

I'm not at all sure of that. Most non-WIS (I think someone on the forum described them the other day as "civilians") wouldn't have the faintest idea how to approach watches as a speculative investment and wouldn't try. What I see is a particular sub-set of our own WIS community who now appear obsessed with resale value and the opportunity to make money by buying and selling.

Take the infamous Speedy Tuesday... do you really think the speculators are non-WIS? The man in the street wouldn't have a clue...

Simon

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The irony is... it's the subset that is buying for a return but it's the SAME subset that BUYS them used for silly daft prices. So it's all a bit "inner circle" and I guess that holds its own kind of appeal for some. I prefer to avoid those watches like the plague as I know in my heart I would not be able to shake the feeling I'd been mugged somehow if I bought a 1 week old watch for 30% over RRP, just because I wasn't lucky enough to be on the waiting list.

For those who want £ from this hobby then yes returns have been made, but for the rest of us there is the fun of buying little gems at HALF RRP which we couldn't afford unless we bought used. Thinking Grand Seiko, Glasshutte, etc.


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Originally Posted by Scepticalist

Have to admit, it's a fantastic looking watch. I'd give it serious consideration at £4500 but at 43mm not something I could buy unseen as wearability for my wrist would depend on the lugs.

As for LE popularity, although yes Omega probably do too many you only have to look at the popularity of Omega compared to Zenith. To most non-WIS Zenith barely registers on their radar and even for enthusiasts take a look at the size of Omega Forums compared to Zenith.

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That would ofc equalise overnight if Daniel Craig wore a Zenith in the next Bond [emoji327]. Rolex and Omega of course have great history and heritage, but sadly it's a bit over exaggerated because a fictional movie character wears their watch. Omega handled the bond thing fine for a while but recent incarnations have been too in your face for my liking ("007's on the second hand etc). Rolex have in my eyes done a better job by just using the association but not shoving the branding onto their timepieces.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by proby24

When the bubble goes, it will usher in a return to classic icons.

Rolex Submariner, Daytona, GMT Master.

Omega Moonwatch (plain black dial). SMP, a true modern classic.

Patek Nautilus and Calatrava.

Zenith El Primero.

Breitling Navitimer (and I would add Aerospace here as a relative modern classic and my token quartz).

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A return, you say? Aren't over 90% of the watches posted/boasted here, drooled over, and analysed, already on that list?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RustyBin5

For those who want £ from this hobby then yes returns have been made, but for the rest of us there is the fun of buying little gems at HALF RRP which we couldn't afford unless we bought used. Thinking Grand Seiko, Glasshutte, etc.

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To be fair, they're not mutually exclusive. It's usually was obvious which watches are going to be in demand from day one, either because they're deliberately restricted a la Rolex or limited and highy marketed like LE Omegas.

Going by the Facebook and Instagram feeds, the Speedy Tuesday actually had pretty good new market penetration compared to the Snoopy - there seems to be quite a few for whom it's their first luxury watch, but majority of purchasers are enthusiasts of some sort so yes, quite a few would know the potential value from the outset.

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That would ofc equalise overnight if Daniel Craig wore a Zenith in the next Bond [emoji327]. Rolex and Omega of course have great history and heritage, but sadly it's a bit over exaggerated because a fictional movie character wears their watch.

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That's kind of my point. Zenith don't spend the big bucks on marketing so their LEs fly under the radar. All the better for those who want them.

I like my Speedmaster (a boggo late '90s one that didn't even come on its bracelet, but was priced accordingly), but I'd certainly take the Zenith over the Tuesday, personally.

The Zenith is handsome and unfussy in the way a Speedmaster (non SE) is, but certainly a little different.

M.

PS I can picture the scene now

A restaurant car of a train somewhere in Eastern Europe

Sexy Lady : Can I join you, Mr ...?
Bond : Bond, James Bond.
Sexy Lady : What do you recommend, James?
Bond : Well, I got this Zenith really cheap - I was going to stick with Omega, but with Austerity and all that, they scrutinise my expenses a little more now, so the 10% off list was much appreciated over my usual Omega!

Being a Zenith it's nicely below the radar - Ideal for a Secret Agent, like me, who goes around telling everyone his real name.

M

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Originally Posted by RAJEN

I was just wearing this watch today and a thought entered my
mind. Actually more of a comparison.
On one hand there is the Speedy Tuesday -a limited edition of 2012 and fetching a premium anywhere between 80-200%. Who knows where it will settle. Needless to say, the demand is huge.
On the other hand is the Zenith Reissue Cronometro Tipo CP2, a limited edition of 1000 and much nicer looking IMO and a much loved movement.
I am certainly not knocking the Speedy and would buy it ina heartbeat at RRP but not at the premiums it is fetching.
The Zenith is available 30-40% below retail.
I personally find the Zenith more appealing but doubt if it is shared by majority.
What do you guys think?
And, a couple of obligatory pics

https://s13.postimg.org/qabpx5yfb/IMG_3630.jpg

https://s13.postimg.org/wpaqtu553/IMG_3631.jpg

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Your post was the final straw for me. After handling Endo's CP-2 and trying one on in Chisolm Hunter in Edinburgh, I've just bought one off Chrono24 today for the same price.

Always loved Zenith pilots, well most of the less-than 'Extra Special' ones, but the Heritage is just amazing!!

[emoji2]