Restoration : Jaeger Lecoultre 6b/159

A little before and after of my freshly serviced 6b, a grail watch for me. Seen these in London dealers a few times with all the chrome rubbed off or with dark dials. Always wanted one so bidded on eBay for this (not sure what year it is?):

http://i.ikjbSd.jpg

http://i.imtiyI.jpg

I sent it to Richard @ the watch spot for service, he was hugely reluctant to do it based on the lack of parts etc out there but he weaved his magic:

http://i.ijpg

And sent the case of to Replate it in Canada:

http://iAPd.jpg

Richard fitted a wider, new crown that snuggly fit to the side of case, which just adds perfectly to the look.

This isn't a long story but it was a long wait. It was worth it however:

http://i.imghng.jpg

1950s brown leather or modern black?

http://i.imgamxr9i.jpg

http://i.imJ23A3n.jpg

http://i.Vpn0zc.jpg

Now that is how a seconds hand should be!

Lovely job, and I vote brown.

That is very nicely done, and should continue to give years of enjoyment. Brown strap for me too.


Sent from my iPad using TZ-UK mobile app

Awesome job.

I really like vintage JLC think I'll be after something similar in the future

My old civilian flavoured version used to live on a custom vintage brown by Martu; thus..

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...adf375db92.jpg

al

..."And sent the case of to Replate it in Canada:"
And fxxxxx up another second world war relic...If you want a new looking watch, buy a new one, dont fxxx up the old ones FFS.
It brings my xxxx to the boil seeing things like this!

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Originally Posted by Geronimo

..."And sent the case of to Replate it in Canada:"
And f****d up another second world war relic...If you want a new looking watch, buy a new one, dont f**k up the old ones FFS.
It brings my piss to the boil seeing things like this!

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I'd have to disagree - the damage to the plating was hardly adding anything to it.

Often I'd agree with your stance, but not when it comes to plated cases.

...then let me tell you, he has taken at least 50% off the selling price of that watch, if not more. Anybody in their right mind collecting Military watches, wouldn't even think of having the case redone.To restore a movement with new parts is another kettle of fish, but to have a dial, crystal, case redone is simply not on. I can see by your reply that you are not a mil-watch collector.

I have a fairly large amount of Mil watches in my collection, amongst others, and only once bought a restored/replated Hanhart one pusher...that was when I started collecting, I can still hear the howling on the forum when I presented it!
According to you, I should have this replated ???
http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...kosha-Kamikaze

You might want to edit post #6 and the quoting of it in post #7, this being a public area of the forum.

Here is mine. Issued to a family member. 1942.

https://picload.org/image/rpcpicil/g...b-1599-1-1.jpg

https://picload.org/image/rpcpicll/2...ohnny_kent.jpg

https://picload.org/image/rpcpiciw/6bback-1.jpg

He may have devalued the watch to a collector but I think he doesn’t care and good on him. The OP said it was a grail watch, not an investment. He now has a lovely watch that he can wear every day if he chooses to. If a collector had wanted it all he had to do was to outbid him. If none did it means that either they were not paying attention or it was too dear for them. In any case they had a chance at it, unlike the lovely thing gerard posted above.
So stuff the collectors in this instance and congratulations to the OP for a lovely watch.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geronimo

...then let me tell you, he has taken at least 50% off the selling price of that watch, if not more. Anybody in their right mind collecting Military watches, wouldn't even think of having the case redone.To restore a movement with new parts is another kettle of fish, but to have a dial, crystal, case redone is simply not on. I can see by your reply that you are not a mil-watch collector.

I have a fairly large amount of Mil watches in my collection, amongst others, and only once bought a restored/replated Hanhart one pusher...that was when I started collecting, I can still hear the howling on the forum when I presented it!
According to you, I should have this replated ???
http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...kosha-Kamikaze

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People can do what they like with their watches. Personally, I couldn't care about the provenance when it is as trashed as in the first picture, now it looks wearable :)

Presumably the case could be returned to its previous condition simply by being popped in a tumble dryer with a handful of pebbles? Chrome-plating always seems pretty eager to loosen itself and escape.

Why I heartily commend your caring about watches, swearing at someone for taking path different to yours is not acceptable. These watches do not en masse belong to the hyperorthodox section of military collectors.

WW2 was fought for freedom, eh? ;)

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Originally Posted by Saint-Just

He may have devalued the watch to a collector but I think he doesn’t care and good on him. The OP said it was a grail watch, not an investment. He now has a lovely watch that he can wear every day if he chooses to. If a collector had wanted it all he had to do was to outbid him. If none did it means that either they were not paying attention or it was too dear for them. In any case they had a chance at it, unlike the lovely thing gerard posted above.
So stuff the collectors in this instance and congratulations to the OP for a lovely watch.

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Absolutely right. Lets not forget a lot of these were called back to the MoD and re-cased post issue. Furthermore the damage to the case is, I suspect, more likely to have occurred post service in civilian life, if not poor storage. If the OP is happy, I think he has done the right thing.
There is lots on the 6b/159 on the MWR forum.

Thanks everyone. I'm very happy with how it looms, Indeed I will not be selling this but I couldn't wear it in its previous state I had it replated so that it could be handed down to my son in the future and not look like something found at the bottom of a toolbox. I also don't consider the damage done to the case to have happened during the war, this is all civilian life taken its toll and any marks occurred during its service have long been wiped away.

I find it hilarious that someone's own ocd can drive them to boil their own urine. That can't be healthy. Although I can see where he's coming from, I wouldn't rebrushed a steel military watch but rechroming adds protection to a brass case, halting future ham handedness from wrecking it's shape.

It's not about the money , so much of watch collecting is about money now. Christ just enjoy it! It's my watch ( and in looks alone is definitely an improvement) and I love it more now, I wouldn't be ashamed to wear it to a dinner party any more or hand it down as a family heirloom.

If I had a box of military stuff that looked as rough as a farmers barn it would fit in fine but I don't and so now it fits in with more prestine collection.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gerard

Absolutely right. Lets not forget a lot of these were called back to the MoD and re-cased post issue. Furthermore the damage to the case is, I suspect, more likely to have occurred post service in civilian life, if not poor storage. If the OP is happy, I think he has done the right thing.
There is lots on the 6b/159 on the MWR forum.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geronimo

...then let me tell you, he has taken at least 50% off the selling price of that watch, if not more. Anybody in their right mind collecting Military watches, wouldn't even think of having the case redone.To restore a movement with new parts is another kettle of fish, but to have a dial, crystal, case redone is simply not on. I can see by your reply that you are not a mil-watch collector.

I have a fairly large amount of Mil watches in my collection, amongst others, and only once bought a restored/replated Hanhart one pusher...that was when I started collecting, I can still hear the howling on the forum when I presented it!
According to you, I should have this replated ???
http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...kosha-Kamikaze

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All the other posts in response to yours say far more succinctly what I would have responded with, so read them.

This thread nicely defines the difference between those who collect watches to wear, and those who collect watches to collect.

Each has its place, but like the OP I could never envisage wearing the watch in its original state.

Whilst an interesting historical artifact in its own right, and in the absence of any "special history", personally I would rather have a timepiece that can be worn and enjoyed than one that sits in a drawer only to be removed and looked at on the odd occasion.

...and this is BMW as in ...The British Military Watch Forum, as in all military watches on a British forum...
Not your high end, look what I've got...bling bling...for that, the best place would be in WATCH TALK !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geronimo

...and this is BMW as in ...The British Military Watch Forum, as in all military watches on a British forum...
Not your high end, look what I've got...bling bling...for that, the best place would be in WATCH TALK !

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Is it a military watch?

You’re a very angry man. If it’s not your thing I am sure you can express your views without swearing or shouting. It devalues your opinion. And it is a BMW so it is where it should be, regardless of your ayatollah’s judgement.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geronimo

...and this is BMW as in ...The British Military Watch Forum, as in all military watches on a British forum...
Not your high end, look what I've got...bling bling...for that, the best place would be in WATCH TALK !

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Even the guys on the Military Watch forum aren't as adverse as your good self.

http://www.mwrforum.net/forums/showt...957-Jlc-6b-159

I'm a bit worried about your blood pressure.

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Originally Posted by alslater

My old civilian flavoured version used to live on a custom vintage brown by Martu; thus..

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...adf375db92.jpg

al

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Now that strap is something I'm very keen on. :eagerness:

A fantastic restoration job . I'm sure your son will love the watch when its handed down to him . I think the strap on the alslater watch would look great on yours . Thank you for posting .

I'll be honest I preferred the before look and I'd have been delighted to wear it like that, but each to their own. At least you're happy to wear and enjoy it and hand it down, sounds like a nice plan.

I think I'm largely with Jimmy (geronimo) though perhaps might not have used the same language. I'm generally not against restoration or re-finishing work but it is very much received wisdom that you leave military (or indeed other historically important) watches alone and I believe the same principle applies in the art world and, to use a horological example, in the world of vintage Rolex. If the OP had done something similar to a milsub he would have been burnt alive by now.

The two main problems I have with this is that it can't easily be reversed and therefore removes an example from the food chain that another collector might have been happy to own and wear in original condition. Secondly it strikes me that there are very few good re-platers out there and I don't think the edges on this example are very good. I will admit to being highly, and possibly excessively, sensitised to the issue of re-plating after this particular debacle:

http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...or-a-jump-hour

Of course it's the OP's watch and he can do whatever he wants to it however if you like new-looking shiny things I'd suggest the better approach is to find the deep pockets required to purchase a NOS example (and devote the appropriate level of extremely diligent research required to find one) or go and buy a new watch.

Finally I hoped that the OP might have learnt his lesson from the badly re-dialled Zenith he tried to sell here recently.

Thank you Alan, for putting in writting exactly what I thought at the time of my reply...Although I must confess, I am speechless and apologise for the amount of agrivation and language I used...I'm truely sorry, and I don't know what got into me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geronimo

Thank you Alan, for putting in writting exactly what I thought at the time of my reply...Although I must confess, I am speechless and apologise for the amount of agrivation and language I used...I'm truely sorry, and I don't know what got into me.

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No worries (I honestly think this forum brings out the worst in people). Each to their own and certainly something of a hot debate, something which may die down in the future perhaps but as Carlton Browne says...not within military or vintage Rolex circles I doubt. I do see what he's saying about the rounded edges compared to the original but firstly I thinking that years of wear have already rounded off those edges and secondly i have no cares about taking it off the 'military collectors markets' at all and it's so much nicer for me. It wouldnt be hard to age the look a little to be honest if I wasn't happy.

As to the zenith I think the redial went well but the relume kind of let's it down, it's all an experiment and im not afraid to dabble to learn something new. Both were in the interests of wearing them more, the zenith sale came up to help with a house move as have a few other watch sales of late.

Thanks to all for adding to a hot debate. All angles welcome, doesn't change my views just adds to the discussion.

Lovely piece you've got there. The hands and dial look very appealing. :angel12:

I can understand the purist military watch collectors who value authenticity above everything else. However, from a pragmatist point of view the replated case makes the watch much more usable for its intended purpose - to be worn and enjoyed.

I own a similar civilian JLC E159 (circa 1945) that is rather tatty and could do with a service and replating. I have to confess that I haven't done any research regarding who to use for the replating, but I'll investigate further.

Here's some pictures:

https://uhrforum.de/attachment.php?a...9&d=1337863874

https://uhrforum.de/attachment.php?a...0&d=1337863874

https://uhrforum.de/attachment.php?a...1&d=1337863874

https://uhrforum.de/attachment.php?a...2&d=1337863874

I suppose the hands may have been relumed at some point because the lume on the dial is considerably darker.

^ the E159's have a particular charm - my old one (had one of those too!) was thus with matching hands/very-dead-lume:

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7120/...37a9ac12_z.jpg

.. they interestingly come with both plated ('B' on the caseback) and entirely stainless..

al

A lovely watch, and much better, in my view, for the restoration.

I'm in a mind and a half wrt restoration - that is, I can half see the point of those who argue against it. Certainly originality is nice to have, but given the choice between original and practically unusable and everyday usable but restored, I'd tend towards the latter. My own grail watch, for example, would be a Rolex 5513 Sub with the Milsub dial and sword hands - all with fresh, bright, SuperLuminova and no scratches, like it might have been originally issued. Unless there is a special connection with a watch, I don't see the point of keeping it in a state that tends to preclude use.

I do have a dog in this fight. I have a fat case quartz CWC Navigator from 1981, that I was issued in around 1985. It saw me around various different oceans as a Navigation Officer in various of HM Ships; was used for astro navigation at sea (once for a 6 day trip under sail across the South China Sea with a compass and sextant as the only navigation aids); helped me time the daily time signal on main broadcast, reminded me to head back to the ship for breakfast after various runs ashore, and now comes out for only a couple of days a year, usually around 21st October for the Trafalgar Night Dinner.

Why so little use? Well, the watch is 36 years old and probably not very waterproof; its tritium lume has aged to the extent that if I charge it under a bright light the hands are visible in the dark for a few minutes only. And I like to wear my watches all the time - whatever I'm doing, in bed and out and about - so the CWC, lovely as it is, and filled with memories, is not a very practical day-to-day wearer for me. Would I get the hands re-lumed? Well, I've certainly thought about it, and, for me, I'm tempted, but I don't want to change it for the next keeper, although my own career was undistinguished and there would be little in my ownership to appeal to any collector, even though the watch itself is rarer than a sword hand Rolex MilSub...

But, if I'd bought it in the same shape as the OP's JLC - certainly, if it makes it easier to use and enjoy...

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4532/3...b21e23d9_k.jpg