There was Lip.
http://www.tz-uk.com/lipsquare.jpg
These are the work of the designer Rudi Meyer from 1974.
Eddie
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There was Lip.
http://www.tz-uk.com/lipsquare.jpg
These are the work of the designer Rudi Meyer from 1974.
Eddie
There was an interesting post on the Stowa forum that mentions Lip.
http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=126716
Bell & Ross has not invented anything: it is just a fashion watch brand!
Panama
Interesting opinion, I doubt Bell & Ross would share it though..... or the many proud owners :?:Quote:
Originally Posted by Panama
Yeah.... sure - you gotta know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Panama
Bell and Ross is another brand that has re-invented itself, and I do agree, to a certain extent, that it is a 'fashion' brand, but only in the same sense that 'Breitling' and to a certain extent, 'Omega' are.
Both Breitling, and Omega depend to a large extent to designs that are now changed every year or so, to cater for trends in fashion, as does Bell and Ross.
Up to about 10 years ago, Bell and Ross were makers of true tool watches, and their range shadowed that of Sinn, so much so that the models seemed identical. Their watches were well made, but cheap, and sold for the same sort of prices as the cheaper Sinn and Olech and Wajs models.
Roughly 10 years ago, it seemed almost overnight, they introduced a new range, much the same as the old one, but with a few cosmetic differences, and started a big advertising campaign in the watch annuals, and on the emerging internet, with celebrity models, and epic photographs. The prices also seemed to double overnight, but that's the way of marketing. They were sucessful though, and the brand is regarded by many as a true high end one.
Before the change in design and strategy, all their advertising was aimed at the US armed forces, and the aviation business. Now they even advertise in the 'lads mags'!
They may well be good watches, even excellent, but remembering their origins, and considering that they largely still use the same movements, and I imagine, have their cases made by the same manufacturer, I consider that they are a wee bit pricey.
Doug, Sinn actually made the watches for Bell & Ross. To put it another way, B&R bought Sinn watches and had Sinn write B&R on the dial.
Hi Joff,Quote:
Originally Posted by joff
I thought Helmut Sinn was still very much in charge. So much so, that he recently purchased Guinand, and is re-introducing the Chronosport range, both as higher end options to he contemporaneous Sinn range.
Here's the new Chrono - the similarity to the 103 is obvious....
http://www.watchlife.com/uploads/Art...nn/41_J_02.gif
The movement however, is totally different:
http://www.watchlife.com/uploads/Art...n/40.50_rs.jpg
I think this sells for a tad over £2k.
I may be wrong, but I thought Sinn made the watches for B&R after Helmut Sinn had sold the company. B&R was founded in 1992, I don't know when Helmut sold Sinn to Lothar.
IIRC Helmut Sinn sold his company which still bears his name to Lothar Schmidt in 1994.Quote:
Originally Posted by doug darter
He started up Guinand and Chronosport as his own new enterprises.
There used to be a forummer who used to pop around to Helmut Sinns place and filled us in with the details in the past, I can't recall who.
I thought B&R's were just rebadged Sinns in the past anyway.
[quote=Neil.C]IIRC Helmut Sinn sold his company which still bears his name to Lothar Schmidt in 1994.Quote:
Originally Posted by "doug darter":2hsj1ldi
He started up Guinand and Chronosport as his own new enterprises.
There used to be a forummer who used to pop around to Helmut Sinns place and filled us in with the details in the past, I can't recall who.
I thought B&R's were just rebadged Sinns in the past anyway.[/quote:2hsj1ldi]
One of my O&W Mirages actually came in a B&R box :shock:
The Lord has spoken :wink:
As far as i know it's true that B&R bought the watches from Sinn after Helmut Sinn sold the company and started Guinand and Chronosport.
I gree with the statement that B&R are more or less a fashion brand now a days... they reinvented themselves so to speak. What their heritage is from the days before they sold the renamed Sinn watches i don't know however.
?1180 (£889) according to the website.Quote:
Originally Posted by doug darter
Yep,Quote:
Originally Posted by cornflakes
My eyes are growing dim... :oops:
This is the expensive one:
http://guinand-watch.com/images/stor...iten/buren.gif
http://www.sinn-japan.jp/catalog/ima...ts/S568010.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by swanbourne
It might be so ... but I still think the B&R design is based on the Sinn NaBo.
john
.
For some unknown reason Guinand/Chronosport are not very popular ? but to my eyes appear to be better quality than Sinn when one compares the models which are similar.
john
Hi John,
Interesting you should say that. I've not heard a lot about either brand at all really, nor have I seen any for sale recently.
I agree with you about quality. The one I have handled was of immense quality - I was very impressed.
The reason for the lack of so few offered for sale could be either because they haven't sold many (unpopular), or those that have them, don't want to sell, which tells it's own story!
I'm intrigued by the Guinands, I particularly like the 40.50-03L (got a hankering for a left hooker at the moment). At some point I need to enlist the aid of a German speaking forum member and e-mail them to find out whether the bezel is ratcheted or friction (and if it's uni or bi-directional).
.
I cannot comprehend how he can be selling a bi-compax 7750 for so little money ...
http://guinand-watch.com/index.php?opti ... Itemid=236
john
Maybe I am too much of a newbie to have a well developed taste, but I really fancy this one
Pictures,
http://www.orientalwatchsite.com/forum/ ... f=4&t=3286
Description,
http://guinand-watch.com/index.php?opti ... Itemid=281
The price looks amazing for a watch of such specification.
Did you miss the leading 1 in the strange Euro formatting?Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxas
On leather ?1180
On bracelet ?1230
I don't know what you mean ... :scratch:Quote:
Originally Posted by hogthrob
Can you point me to another 7750 bi-compax of similar value?
john
PRS-12.Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxas
Eddie
:) :)
By the way, they all seem to have bi-directional bezels, it does not say whether friction or ratchet.
I presume this has a 7750: http://www.ernestjones.co.uk/webstore/detail/R/6209939/Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxas
I must admit that I had mentally edited the "bi-compax" bit out though.
http://www.buosi.com/catalogo/paul5_big.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by swanbourne
The 3-9 bi-compax configuration is more expensive and harder to acquire than the 12-6 which all it requires is the removal of the running secs. A quick look around the web will show the scarcity.
john
PRS-5?
Eddie
I come back on this post as my first reply was a not complete. All B&R chronos before 2002 were branded "by Sinn" as the manufacturing was done by the German watch company.
All the aviation inspiration in the B&R range comes from Sinn. It is only the Hydromax and diver's range which has been "in house" developped. The today's production IMHO remains focused on the fashion and far away from the good tool watches they were producing a couple of years ago....
B&R products are still good quality products, but without interest for me.
:wink: Panama
John
Is this what you mean by bi-compax? http://www.ernestjones.co.uk/webstore/detail/R/6210031/
If so this is pretty darn cheap in anywhere other than Ernest Jones!
I own a BR02 with Pro-Dial (as you might have noticed)... that watch is nothing but a tool (good looking IMO, but that's another story). Excellent readability (in light or darkness), rugged case construction, 1000m waterproof, ....Quote:
Originally Posted by Panama
The square watches might be a fashion thing (especially with orange, blue or black lume), but the BR02 series watches are tools.
Oliver
That one still has three subdials, even if one of them is small.Quote:
Originally Posted by JC180
The original PRS-5 had a Poljot movement. The new one is going to have a Seagul movement, isn't it? :?: :shock:Quote:
Originally Posted by swanbourne
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...RL._SS500_.jpg
Here's another of the few of the autos.
Thank you hogthrob. I think they are playing silly. :roll:
john
Correct. They were exactly the same watches, just with a different brand on the dial. They even had an agreement that prohibited Sinn from selling in markets where B&R was present in retail. Sinn sold semi-direct through a very small number of representatives, amongst which were a few pilot's shops in Germany. Resellers had no watches in stock, they ordered them direct from the factory when a customer ordered. I got my 256 from the only reseller for the Netherlands/Belgium (and elsewhere), at roughly one third the price of the same watch sold as a B&R through jewelers shops in France at the time (1997). The B&R sold at similar prices as a Breitling or an Omega. These days, of course, B&R is even more a fashion brand than before, and Sinn has 'upgraded' to a more expensive market segment as well. No more cheap plastic boxes with photocopied instructions for the V 7750 movement, but proper inner/outer boxes, paperwork etc. - and the price level to go with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by joff
I don't think Sinn makes B&R anymore. But possibly both may be getting their cases from the same source (Fricker)? I haven't kept up since I was weaned off my Sinn and I got my Broadarrows from Eddie...
It would be interesting to find out where the B&R cases come from ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fschwep
john